poobumbutt

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet, but apparently you can talk to the cops and potentially talk down your crime? I heard this second hand and haven't had the chance to test, but if you don't do anything too serious (murder and actively attacking cops seem like "too serious"), then when the cops show up, you can "lock on" to them like anyone else - put your weapon away first! - and tell them your side of the story. "That guy hit me first, I was defending myself" and so on. This is also how you surrender and voluntarily go to jail if you can't talk your way out of it. Again, the crime has to be minor enough that the cops haven't switched to "bring him in in a body bag" mode. Might be worth testing. I know there are a few dumb mistakes that led to tens of dollars in bounties (not insignificant in early game) that I definitely would have preferred just sitting in prison for a few days.

Also, no, you aren't wrong. The bounty system seems obtuse to the point of comedy. I made a much more long-winded and crazy-person-sounding post about it myself.

God, that title made me cringe. Not hyperbole. I made the face I make when I eat sour food. That name pisses me off a little.

OK, @fruitsofthesun, let's get down to business. I've had quite a bit more time with the game and more time to watch others play the game.

First: evidently, robbing people is not the most profitable choice you can make in this game, at least at the still very early point I'm at in the game - it sounds like that choice is actually doing the main game missions - though it's nice to hear that changes and becomes more profitable later. So, this alleviates one big worry I had (which wasn't voiced in either of my earlier posts): that if you wanted "good money", you needed to rob people, preferably bad ones, or easy ones. Finding that's untrue actually calms me about a lot of my previous issues. I thought this was a system you either needed to learn, or get ready for the game to kick your ass.

Second, when I mentioned not robbing innocents, I meant that the game discourages you with the morality system. Robbing the O'Driscoll's doctor office does nothing to your morality because they're shitheads; but considering I'm the type who is actively afraid - illogically, likely - of the fact that some side missions will disappear if you don't have the proper morality meter, I consider constantly robbing innocents to be a bad decision. Miscommunication on me.

On that note, yeah I know about stagecoaches, but I'm so early, the game still hasn't given me the mission that tutorializes them. I'm waiting on that. And yes, before you say, I know I don't need to, I've gotten the fence so I know I can try that, I just prefer waiting to be told.

Paging @devise22 and @cataplasia. So, the bounty system. Hoo boy. After writing my first post, I did find that apparently, there is an outfit/horse system in the game which contributes to revealing your identity. Side note: the veracity with which people seem to think this is all common knowledge is clown-shoes goofy. The first Red Dead, you put on your mask and you might as well be a space alien. "Who's that man dressed exactly like John Marston, sheriff? We need to stop him and give John his clothes back!" There's an incredible "ha-ha, silly n00b" attitude with people questioning the bounty system. Which is weird since it doesn't seem to work, or not consistently. (Sorry we all didn't watch the pre-release gameplay videos, I guess) I've tested myself and seen others try to rob places with a new, designated for crime outfit, new horse and a full hood (not just bandana) on, and the second a lawman gets their eyes on you: "WANTED ARTHUR MORGAN". But others get shit done just fine. I know a general rule is to keep lawman violence to a bare minimum if you don't want a huge bounty, but that doesn't explain the X-ray vision. Does it only work on civvies?

UI clutter: what I mean is the left d-pad menu where your "tasks" and "challenges" are. Every time you get a "robbery tip", it goes there. I assumed that if I got a bunch of "rob this side-business" tips, but put them off to deal with later as you suggest at one point, it would become crowded and tough to find anything in it. Again, still not far enough in to know if that's true.

The lack of decent money comment had less to do with the actual money and more to do with my confusion that the game at the time seemed to be telling me "pay off this $60 bounty you got from your $40 robbery or have a hell of a time trying to play in and around this town." Again, before I understood that robbing in the early game is not what the game "wants" you to do if you want "good money" and before I understood the outfit and bounty system. Well, I should say "knew about", 'cause evidently I still don't understand it.

Anyway, thanks for the response. The parts about being able to just terrorize a town endlessly after you're "done" with it (though I don't know if I'll be willing to pay the morality price, I'm just "that dude") and how the robbery and activity money will pick up eventually were very relieving. This might have felt like being talked down to by Neil Degrasse-Tyson after asking some question about the atmospheric density of Mercury and getting an "Ugh. Ignorant people" lecture... but if that's the price I have to pay for the only helpful response - and it was helpful, legit thank you - I'll gladly pay it.

@alistercat: @dragon_puncher: @merxworx01: Very true with the part about having a ton to figure out. Honestly, I'm surprised I got more out of this thread than "I don't know. I've barely played 6 hours." Thanks for your responses everyone. If I seem peeved, it's not at you guys. This happens, in some regard, every time I play a Rockstar game. Also, @efesell, I know it may not seem like it, but I AM trying hard to "get" this. So, if it's not too much trouble, since you seem to have it down already, if you could just read this and give me your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

As for "falling face first into the mud", I get being discouraged from robbing the average store-owner. I did test runs after my robbery of the racket and that's how I learned about the constantly existing bounty, but beyond that, I don't want to rob innocent people and the game makes it clear that I shouldn't. However, robbing an O'Driscoll criminal racket which is likely exploiting the good people of Valentine, not having some way of doing so quickly and getting basically the same punishment as if I robbed the general store seems wrong.

I should clarify: it seems wrong because of the note in my "tasks" objective bar that tells me that's a thing I can do. I feel like this is where my confusion actually comes from: a direct message from the game telling me "hey, look at this!" If I just ignore every racket ever because I might not break even, then the amount of tasks I would have would honestly just be a UI problem at a certain point, and that seems a shitty thing to do if you just want to make a point about "robbery is hard". I'm struggling to come to terms with the idea that not only are there systems designed not for my benefit (which sure, cool), but that the game would actively turn me toward those systems and then tell me "no, idiot. Weren't you listening when Arthur literally said 'times have changed. We're dying out'? God, listen. Ludonarrative resonance, look it up". Though, that also seems like the most Rockstar-ass design choice, as well.

Sure, "just don't do it, open robbery is stupid" seems like the easiest, most direct answer. But besides the UI clutter issue, there's the part where this whole game is about committing crimes and having a good old outlaw fun time during the story. You have the ability to commit those crimes and have fun in the open world... but then - even if you endeavor to not injure civilians or cops - you have to return, head bowed, and tell the nice man at the bounty office that you're "real sorry, here's a chunk - or all - of my earnings. I was a bad boy."

Again, it seems like the game is very close to communicating... something to me. It certainly isn't telling me "don't do it", the objective list proves that; but it isn't encouraging either, the lack of decent money proves that. It's clearly a thing the game wants me to engage with. That or horrendous future UI design. Wait, is that the point? That I can do it if I want, but I should know it'll be hard and possibly not pay off? That's the closest I've come to something that doesn't have a gaping logical hole in it. Well, then there's the part that Rockstar protags can always come back to life with no progress lost. So, that does add a cool "do it right the first time" element.

*SIGH* I guess I'll follow the advice of that article and just try not to rack up to huge a bounty and then pay it off afterward and hope really hard that I profit. Honestly, for all the insistence from you guys that the game is trying to tell me something about crime, it just seems to be saying "have fun when we want you to, player." At least when it comes to heist-style stuff.

I'm going to be brutally honest: I don't really see the point in doing the cool cowboy thing of openly robbing an illegal side-business in this cool cowboy game. When I refer to an "open" robbery, I mean one where it seems nigh impossible to get in and out without attracting law attention, due to it being within a town and involving gunfire. Thus, it seems nearly impossible as well to get out without a bounty. And herein lies my problem.

I cover up my face with a mask, I rob the SB (the racket in the back of Valentine's doctor office), have a bit of a shootout, and get a bounty on my head. Then the game (and Google) tell me it's probably a good idea to change my appearance - wear different clothes, maybe shave (even though ALL my facial hair was obscured by a mask... sure) and that'll help me blend back in with the general populace. One thing: the bounty doesn't go away and there doesn't seem to be a visual indicator of how well my disguise (read: brown coat) worked during my crime.

So, are you supposed to just hope your new look works, always prepared for a bullet in the back by a bounty hunter? Or is a simple clothing change usually more than sufficient? And God forbid I might want to commit a crime in that general vicinity again; do I wear the same disguise as before (a "crime outfit") and risk attracting attention the minute I waltz into town? Or, is open robbery just more fucking trouble than it's worth? I'm beginning to lean toward that. One article I found simply suggests paying off your bounties. Well, that racket job didn't exactly pay very well, and the idea of committing a robbery netting me about $30 with which I then use to pay off a $50 bounty does not sound very "cowboy". Am I eventually going to be making scores that make the bounties they produce look like chump change?

I know the game just came out, but does anyone have a handle on this? This is frustrating since doing classic, rootin'-tootin' robbery was one of the things I was looking forward to in this game.

I love Mass Alex, but I missed one week a while ago and ever since, I haven't had it in me to catch up. I'm hoping I'll get inspired soon during a Dragon Quest 11 session and watch a whole bunch.

Point is, this shit happens. It's only natural. I decided a while ago that I would need to curate what I watch on here, or I'll never watch anything else, ever. If it interests me, I'll watch it. If you think 95% of GB content is interesting in that way, then cool. Just... don't kill yourself doing it; or kick yourself for falling slightly behind.

I really want to get into Elusive Targets in Hitman 2 since I fell off of them so quickly in 1, despite loving the concept. Feel like I’m practically obligated to do this one.

Also, this trailer was really good. Though that could just be because I love the idea that Sean Bean has played the same character in every movie and just faked all those deaths. How he managed to fake 2 horses quartering him in Black Death is beyond me, though. Disclaimer: don’t watch Black Death, it’s bad.

Yup. Everything @humanity said, with a reiteration about the soundtrack, which you seem to already assume is great. I felt, when starting this post, that I had more... eloquent things to say on HLD, but I guess there isn't much else besides that it's just solid as Hell. A video game-ass video game, as they say.

@efesell: Yeah, rereading the last sentence, he does pretty much ask that, huh? I guess it's in my nature to (naively?) want to propose a solution. I guess I skipped over it in haste. My bad.

And yeah, I get that it IS, in fact, the norm. I wasn't necessarily surprised by Pyra, except possibly by the aforementioned amount that her costume does NOT fit her character. Again, it's probably in my nature to want to say in cases like this "yeah, it is the norm, and I think that sucks" and focus much more on the latter than the former.

What a surprise that the first few responses are "well, it's anime, and it ALWAYS happens in anime." Apparently if something is a big enough problem that it's become practically a staple of the medium, you don't get to have issues about it anymore - or at least, your critique gets shrugged off like you're complaining about a minor bug in an AC game.

Pyra's awful design was one of the reasons I stopped playing that game, though I won't pretend it was the only one. Trying to have deep meaningful conversations about your life while Pyra is wearing what amounts to the anime Leia-slave costume just does not work.

Also, I think there is a distinction worth making about why Pyra's design is so bad. It is not only embarrassing fan-service, but also an uninventive, uninteresting design. There are ways you can have a fan-service-y outfit that actually communicates something about the character (Bayonetta instantly comes to mind), even if in most cases, I'd rather have the character be dressed in actual clothing because that's usually where cooler-looking designs can happen. But Pyra's whole demeanor and attitude feels precisely opposite of a character who would wear her outfit in that game. Just... bad.