I dabbled in one of the Souls games, can't remember which one, and played an hour or two of Bloodborne before realizing that I like games for the power fantasy and fun, rather than getting repeatedly murdered. I'm up for a challenge, but those games are too much when I'm looking to unwind after a day of work.

The Bombcast and Quick Look have me very curious, and reading other forums posts for Nioh make me think this game maybe isn't as brutal as a Souls game. Looking to branch out beyond the comfort of my FPS walls and occasional, more casual 3rd person action games (Tomb Raider, Batman, etc.), but is this game not the one I should look to to scratch that itch?

Thanks friends.

Maybe give it a rent. I've been curious about this one as well. I played the first dark souls but only got about halfway through. I liked it a lot though once I got used to it. This one seems a little less unforgiving compared to the souls games, but still plenty hard from what I gather. So rent it, if you like it buy it if not oh well. That's my plan!

Are you good at other kinds of games? Character action games? DMC, ninja gaiden, bayoneta? Because I'm sorry to say but Nioh is certainly harder than any Souls game. There's an entire thread about people having a hard time with the first boss. I crushed every souls game and spent an hour or two on the second boss in Nioh. It is a hard game.

I wouldn't say it's "difficult" in many of the same ways as a Souls game, but it is pretty tough nonetheless. DS games get a lot of their challange by obfuscating mechanics, items, techniques, et al., by their dogged reliance on animation priotirty, and by fully, if not willfully, allowing the player to get in over his/her head, among other things.

Nioh is still chalenging, to be sure, but IMO so far, is also a good deal more welcoming and transparent. There are LOADS of customization options to suit just about any play style. Some may even argue too many, heh. Also, it is, at its heart, a Team Ninja joint, so the controls feel far more immediate and percise. Still, the game requires your full attention, understanding and patience or you will get creamed! I mean, you're still going to die a lot, no matter what. There's still a good amount of "grinding" or looping for better gear and stats necessary for most mortal players as well, so if any of those were among the thing that irked you about DS/BB, maybe do walk on.

I think there are plenty of more relaxing, forgiving ways of beating the holy hell out of stuff just to let off some stress at the end of a rough day. DmC comes straight to mind, as well as the HD version of DMC 4, both of which I assume can be found cheap by now. Transformers Devistation is also a blast if you're into the older cartoons/comics, and you can simply never go wrong with Diablo 3. You may even want to think about a "Warriors"-style game if you really just wanna let off steam. If you're one of the other 25 people (like me) who bought a Wii U, Hyrule Warriors is pretty fun, as is Bayonetta 2!

The combat is way more Ninja Gaiden esque which makes it way easier for me personally, but harder for others apparently. It's also more straightforward with shorter levels and Diablo loot is fun. There's also just way more stuff to mess around with the crafting, skill trees,etc. That said if Bloodborne didn't grab you even a little then I'm not sure this will. Its still a essentially a Souls game, just a bit more palpable overall.

@pyrodactyl: I'm getting a really strong "Demon's Souls is the hardest game ever" vibe from reading people talking about Nioh though. I'll admit that I struggled a bit with the first boss as well, but earlier today I went back to replay the level to find all the Kodamas and fighting the boss was a joke. Sure, the higher level gear probably helped a lot, but I'd say the bigger difference was that I was still learning the basics of the game when I first fought him.

As for the OP, I'd ask the same question. How are you with more reactive games like DMC or Bayonetta ? If you're decent at them (and enjoy them) you might find Nioh enjoyable once you get over the hump.

@ep_driver: the short answer is "yes"

nothing i've read/seen of this game has described it as a "more casual 3rd person action game." that's not a slight against you- i just mean to say that if you want to play something that doesn't require careful and deliberate execution of combat (along with punishment for failure)- this probably is not the game for you.

I mean I wouldn't say this is nearly as frustrating as Dark Souls or even Bloodborne but I still wouldn't describe it as much of a power fantasy so... you probably would but maybe not as much?

I really, really like Nioh, but I definitely wouldn't call it a power fantasy. Even the basic dudes can mess you up pretty good if you aren't on top of things. And as for repeated murder, well, if the second boss is anything to go by, this might not be the game for you.

It is hard to say, i feel like so far the difficulty is less bullshit and more skill based than dark souls. How were you at ninja gaiden? I feel its harder than dark souls as the difficulty in those games typically came from troll level design and enemy placement than actual combat. I have only been knocked off a ledge once so far.

It reminds me a lot of games like xbox ninja gaiden and devil may cry 3 but slower paced and less verical.

Those fuckin' bats.

It is a little easier for me than the average Souls game so far (I'm in the third zone, not sure how far that is), but it's hard to tell if that's because of this game in particular or just massive amounts of Souls experience. I can say that if you're looking for a power fantasy, this isn't it. It's nothing like it, honestly. It punishes button mashing and mistakes like Souls games do, it hides enemies around corners programmed to ambush you as soon as you step out, it has traps in chests, it has environments that make you fall to your death, poison area's and so on. I did my first Twilight Zone mission for which I was overleveled by double the amount and I still got murdered for mistakes.

Based on what you're asking, I would not recommend Nioh. However, it might be another chance to get into these types of games. It is most definitely a Souls game, but it also refined much of that experience. Perhaps you'll find something here that will draw you in. Just as long as you understand what you're buying though.

So far I'd be tempted to say it's easier than a souls game. I'm having an easier time dealing with most enemies, in general they don't seem to get up on you like in Dark Souls, or at least it's easier to dart in and out of range of them. In general, the bosses have much less intense patterns than something like Bloodborne. However, it seems like there are more enemies that straight up cheat in order to increase the difficulty/discourage certain strategies, they might be a road block for you, but so far I've only encountered enemies like that in side missions. One thing I will say is that the ranged weapons can completely trivialize some encounters, so if you stay stocked up on ammo, you'd have an easier time with this than with similar games.

Dark Souls isn't difficult, Nioh is extremely difficult. Take that for what you will.

My experience:

I am terrible at souls games, terrible. For some reason I enjoy them immensely.

I don't think Nioh is as hard as the Souls (Bloodborne included) series. I really can't put my finger on why, but take that for what it is worth.

What's your stance on Ninja Gaiden Black?

That doesn't help here does it? In Ninja Gaiden you succeed because you don't give the enemies a chance to attack. Your assault is relentless. In Nioh that'll end you up with an empty stamina bar and you getting murdered. You can't approach these games the same way.

i dislike souls games but i fell in love with nier demo. its weird, i had such a fun time dying against the boss but if it was souls id hate it

I mean that's definitely a strategy here too. With lighter armor Mid/Low stance attacks can be chained together with Ki Pulses to a very overwhelming degree.

@efesell: Against single enemies, sure. But in groups that'll get you murdered. You have to go in/out. You can't go all-in like you do in NG.

Thanks for all the thoughts! A couple things...

- I'm not wondering if this will fulfill power fantasy. I usually play games for that reason, but am looking to branch out to something tougher.

- Not afraid of a challenge, so I'm not totally put off by this game if it's challenging, but I was curious how it stacked up against the Souls series, and from what I'm seeing here there are wildly polar opinions on this point.

- I've never played a DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden (past NES) game before, as all of them haven't appealed to me from an art standpoint, and that really puts me off of games. Nioh's art direction puts me off too, but again, trying to branch out and not let that keep me from experiencing cool games.

- Lastly, and not to sound like like I think too highly of myself, but I feel confident with my gaming abilities. The Souls games have been too much for me from the standpoint that I've been too lazy to take the time and patience needed to learn the combat system. I guess also the punishing "random" deaths aren't too exciting to me either.

All that being said, refining my inquiry, I wonder if Nioh has less BS deaths than the Souls series, and if the combat is at all easier to pick up (despite the potential depth with different stances). Thanks again y'all!

man after reading all these posts i cant tell if this game is easier or harder than the souls games. i guess its up to the individual, so as i said before... give it a rent, play it for a few hour and see if it clicks with you dude.

@dartell: im assuming that was a mistype, because nier and nioh are both way different types of games. though both look rad to me. kind of annoying that games with such similar names are out so close together.

Yes, sorry was using my TV to respond.

Well in light of that last bit I'd say its probably worth giving it a shot? The combat is maybe more complicated but less punishing on your mistakes, not nearly as much concern about animation priority. It's also better about having actual explanations for mechanics, instead of just 'Well I think this means..'

There's still SOME bullshit to the level design but the most egregious I've seen has just been an overabundance of archers/grenadiers. Not as ambush happy as Souls is.

@mattimus_prime: I think your simple reply is actually the best one for me so far, hahahah. I never think to rent games in this day and age, but if Redbox gets this game I might spend the $5 for a day. Thanks!

@efesell: @zevvion: Yeah I think you can be relatively relentless in Nioh.

As I posted earlier, it's just Demon's Souls all over again, people up-playing how difficult it is because they haven't quite figured out how to play the game yet. Just give it some time and people might start to become a bit more reasonable about their opinions of the game =)

I've only watched the QL and have just bought the game (haven't played it yet). Is Nioh as openly "fuck you" to the players as DS often is with unavoidable deaths? (that are, mostly 'unavoidable' the first time - a certain Dragon on a bridge springs to mind as one example)

I'm decent at souls games but I'm really struggling to get 'good' at the combat in this. I will say that it doesn't seem like you have to be as good at the combat as you did in Dark Souls just to get by so you'll probably be OK.

Doesn't seem like it, unless they're saving it for the end.

It's mostly subjective, i suppose, but I think Nioh is quite a lot easier than any of the Souls games, and 'way' easier than Bloodborne, though the general speed is comparable to Bloodborne.

I'm in a similar boat, I have very little patience for Souls games, but I can't deny the appeal of them. From watching the Quick Look, Nioh seems far more up my alley in terms of gameplay and "feel" than Souls/Bloodborne, not to mention all that loot getting me all hot and bothered.

I started Bloodborne over again this weekend to better understand what it is I find so unappealing about these games, and it comes down to not liking how stiff and clunky the combat feels. It feels like it is far too focused on animation priority above anything else. Also, the camera and framerate are both booty. I'm fine with dying over and over, until I hone my skills and start to see real progression. What I'm not fine with is dying to an enemy I've beat over and over by getting tripped up by the camera, or a hitchy framerate making me think there's an input delay.

Nioh seems to have that Team Ninja smoothness that made Ninja Gaiden such a joy to play, even as that game handed me my ass. That, along with a setting that appeals to me far more than anything in Dark Souls or Bloodborne, makes me think this game could finally open me up to what all the fuss is about with this type of game.

Nan, I really do think some bosses in this require a level of execution and proficiency that souls rarely asks of its players. Not to mention I've heard rumblings that the NG+ is crazy instead soul's barely harder NG+. The only thing I'll say is that magic is kind of OP but that's pretty much a staple of v 1.0 of all souls games at this point.

I find this game quite a bit easier than your average souls game (assuming you aren't summoning in dark souls at least). I mean you can 100% damage reduction block almost every single attack in the entire game-- bosses included, regardless of elemental damage, without a shield. They've literally never made a shield in any souls game that has anywhere near 100% DR vs every type of elemental damage. Also, the dodge requires practically no stamina and you can spam it all over the map. Finally, I haven't put a sinlge point into stamina and i still find myself barely even having to think about equip load

Quoting my own question earlier

Having played about 4 hours or so now I can confirm that the game is not as aggressively "fuck you" to the player as a Souls game - there seems to be, for the most part, less bullshit.

That said, I have died in frustrating fashion a lot of the time - similar to a Souls game it is generally my own fault and has me questioning what the hell I am doing. It's great.

It might be my playstyle, but I'm dying a lot more in Ni-Oh than I did in Bloodborne/Dark Souls. It's probably because of the checkpoints being closer to the thing that actually kills me so I'm more wiling to bang my head against walls. Either way I'm not really getting frustrated except for situations where I've pretty much figured out the boss' attacks and found the right times to strike but I'm not doing much damage so it takes SO LONG that eventually I make a mistake and get killed in one shot.

I feel like this game is very difficult if you want to get in there and look cool but my boring style of watching and punishing their fuckups kind of trivializes the whole thing.

Yeah, I feel pretty much the exact same way. I am not using mid-stance as much anymore now though, so blocking has become a bit more punishing, but that's about it.

Is it? I am using magic a little bit, but it doesn't do a lot of damage. Obviously, I'm not a full magic build, so it could be that, but you aren't either are you?

I don't think I agree about the bosses. Yeah, Ice Lady was a pretty fun and deep fight, but it also has its fair share of easy bosses like Centipede or Corrupted Cat (I really don't know the actual names of the bosses). I'd say it's about the same for Dark Souls in general. Velstadt in DSII is a pretty cool boss to fight in terms of his moveset. Guardian Drake is also pretty awesome. But then there is also things like the Skeletons and such who are real easy.

Maybe on first blush you will but once you start unlocking moves and understanding your stats better you can really open up the combat options. I typically don't enjoy using weapons in Souls games as they are really only variations on stab, dodge, stab, block, but in Nioh you can really get some cool variations going.

@zevvion: The slow status effect, from electrocution or through the slow spell is very, very good. Makes bosses move and attack at half speed and that is maybe too good.

@pyrodactyl: Oh yeah, I remember you talking about that. Still haven't tried that out, but I'm already stacked on abilities for quick use. It's kind of odd actually... you only have 7 spots for abilities (assuming you don't want to replace Elixirs) but have way more skill points to assign slots to. And then the later tiers of spells and ninjitsu all reduce the equip cost of those abilities, which doesn't make a lot of sense since you're already stacked so you can't equip more of them anyway.

@zevvion: You're suppose to switch depending on the situation/boss/level you're in. Also, training multiples of one spell in the skill tree enable you to equip all versions (the one that costs 3, the one that costs 2, etc) to have more charges.

@pyrodactyl: I suppose. I found it to not be necessary so far. But don't you have to assign the charges to a separate slot? Otherwise, yeah, that does seem very useful if you can have 6 of the same spell instead of 3 in the same slot.

You can't assign to a different slot. That would be pretty dumb if you could/had to. More charges you attune just show up as more items in your inventory.

@pyrodactyl: Agreed, but based on how that system worked it seemed to me like that would be the case. Pretty great that it isn't though. I have specced a little more in Onmyo since I was getting diminishing returns from Skill anyway, so it's good to know I can do that.

If you don't like Souls games, you probably won't like this game. The gameplay at its foundation is a souls game.

The thing I'll say about Nioh is the loot drops, blacksmith stuff, kodama-finding and familiarity stuff mean you're always getting stronger, even if you feel like a wall's been hit.

There's a point at which these games can be a challenge and a power fantasy @ep_driver