How can you watch that game play, and then say it plays more like Dark Souls? Souls games have methodical combat. That is just straight up button mashing action.

@owack6 said:

@shindig said:

Polygon will not be reviewing this because they thought it was too hard.

Polygon are a bunch of softies.

*insert doom 2016 gameplay joke here*

@sterling: Have you really played this game or are you just trolling this thread right now? You try ''mashing buttons'' and see if you can even win one fight in this game. The only reason this guy can stay on the offensive and string so many attacks together is because he has mastered the ki pulse mechanic, manages his stamina like a pro and knows all the moves and stances like the back of his hand.

Look, I'm a big dark souls fan but I realized after playing the latest Nioh beta that Dark Souls was missing something gameplay wise. Dark Souls is a masterpiece of mood, art design, level design and it does have some unique slow methodical gameplay. The thing is, that slow methodical gameplay is pretty shallow. There are very few mechanics so getting better at the game just means learning patterns, dodge timing of every enemy attack, the timing of your attacks and managing stamina.

Everyone starts playing Nioh like it's a souls game. You play slow, learn dodge timing, block and manage stamina. Let's put aside the fact that these mechanics are way less forgiving in Nioh than they are in Dark Souls forcing you to master the methodical style of play more than you have to in a souls game. From that point though, you're still at the bottom of the skill ladder in Nioh and it will very much look like you're playing a souls game. From there to that video you have to learn 3 distinct stances per weapon type, how and when to perform ki pulses/dynamic stance changes boosting stamina recovery significantly, how to manage your opponent's stamina and a bunch of other concepts to even come close to looking like that guy playing this game.

I am not sure what you guys mean about dark souls only being slow and methodical? I played a dex character in both 2 and 3 with no shield and a katana, it wasn't as fast as this but i was on the attack a lot. Dark souls allows many types of play styles imo

Soooo this is the same team that made Ninja Gaiden 3!?!?!

@colonel_pockets: This is more of a collaboration from both sides of Koei Tecmo with a decent amount of elements from Koei games as well as Tecmo games and obviously Dark Souls. There's a reason why Kou Shibusawa's name is so prominently featured.

I think I predicted this the first time I played it but since it's a Koei Tecmo game it does in fact have a shitload of content in it; probably more than Dark Souls II. Of course some of that is going to be repetitive but I guess the challenge makes it feel better? Still no clue if Twilights are dailies or not.

I'd like to back this all up. After extensively playing the alpha/beta whatever, you can't call anything in Nioh "button mashing" in the slightest as even the simplest enemies will completely ruin you when caught out of breath. In some ways the mechanic in my opinion is almost too savage, where even when I was way higher level than the basic grunts I would still occasionally get demolished if I became careless and tried to "button mash" my way through. This is one of the few areas that I would lightly criticize the game (although who knows how the full thing plays) but in Souls games there is a very real and satisfying sense of character progression that I didn't encounter in Nioh to the same satisfaction. What I mean is that you eventually level up in a Souls game to the point where beginner enemies from the first area you struggled in are now a joke, and mowing through them is extremely cathartic and empowering as you recall having to cautiously bait them out one by one, while now you're just decimating entire groups with a single swing. It gives the player (at least in my case) a sense of progression as if time has actually passed in the game world, like you've went off on an adventure and came back a man, older and wiser.. After having leveled quite a bit in Nioh, attaining really cool armor and weapons with elemental damage that I proceeded to max out for crazy bonuses, I still had to watch my step around those very basic enemies lest they catch me off-guard and nearly one shot kill me in the process. I suppose it does fit into the whole Ikken Hissatsu "one hit kill" thing but it can get brutal.

This could potentially be just a thing in the beta as they wanted to tweak it in such a way that you wouldn't be able to go through that single level too quickly for "testing" purposes. That said, all this praise is getting me a bit worried. From what I played I had some good fun, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it was 9.6/10 fun. Nioh played like a fun enough one-of-these games, and despite there being very few in the category, it very much is one-of-these types of games. Lots of YouTube influencers (still feel gross even writing that) have apparently gotten the game early as well, earlier than even Kotaku apparently, and already have like half of it up on YouTube, so I skipped around and much to my dismay the environments don't really differ all that much which was my other major complaint. Heck, Game Informer in some desperate bid for views put up the video of the last boss just yesterday. Fun for people that don't care, but also.. why? The game isn't even out and you're posting the ending up online? I get why an "influencer" would do that but a half respectable outlet like Game Informer should probably know better right?

@sterling: Did we watch the same video? I can assure you, this is one of the least button mashy action games you could find. I'd argue Dark Souls has more mashing it, especially if you overlevel. He's doing some advanced canceling and stance switching which is fair to miss if you don't know the game, but are you actually gonna look at the movement/dodging and attack timings and tell me he's just mashing? XD

I feel like @sterling's impressions here are kinda like someone who saw a video of the Xbox Ninja Gaiden for the first time. If you look at NG's predecessors, it just looks like "one of those:" another mash-buttons-to-look-cool game. But if you played NG, you realize quickly that mashing buttons will get you killed over and over and over. I really hope that what I've seen over the past couple of weeks is the right impression - a game that's set in Onimusha-land, but with Ninja Gaiden's fast-paced and strategic combat, and your gameplay varies with your build like Dark Souls, along with the constant allure of Diablo's colored loot.

Hardest game of the decade eh? I have been playing Stardew Valley all week. This should be a rude awakening to my reflexes.

@sammann31415: It's slower and more grounded than Ninja Gaiden for sure, the video up above is in the upper end of pace you can hit in the game (not easy to do). Most people's gameplay will look a bit more like a faster souls game.

"It's really fucking gooood" Jeff Gerstmann, Giant Bomb dot com.

It actually doesn't feel as hard as DS for me. Part of that is the lack of dread and the increased amount of ways to deal with a situation. It might actually be harder in terms of the amount of times you die, but the game doesn't center itself around death of the player as much as empowering the player. I dunno, it's kinda hard to explain.

Haven't listened to the Bombcast yet (saving it for Thursday run) but he really said that? Cause that seems surprising. I thought maybe the loot aspect of it might draw him in, especially after he weirdly enough got so addicted to playing Let It Die, but man didn't expect him to really get into it.

Either way my game is downloading to PS4 as we speak.

@humanity: I'm watching the Bombcast right now and when I heard Jeff say that, I did a double take. I just expected him to bounce off it but he completely surprised me by gushing about it. Even more excited about my copy showing up tomorrow.

My tastes don't always line up with Jeff's (I tend to like games that he likes, but also love games that he hates.) But I feel like when Jeff is really enthusiastic about a game then it must be special.

I wouldn't say it's a button masher but it's definitely letting me spam attacks way more than I have in a souls game. Ki Pulse is a very powerful mechanic.

This has completely sidelined me. Never heard of this before last week. Glad to hear it's looking good.

I'm genuinely surprised to see the overwhelmingly positive reception to this game, I guess Lords of the Fallen this is not, huh?

It's probably good for me and my nasty habit of impulse buys that it's already sold-out on Amazon.

wheres the quick look!?

i'd buy this game in an instant if it wasn't for next month releases, i'll have to wait and pick this up later in the year when I have more cash flow and time.

Quicklook pls ^^

@pompouspizza: yah I smilarly enjoy a lot of games that Jeff likes although sometimes he tends to steer hard left or simply hypes something up beyond belief. Like Titanfall 2 is a lot of fun but I feel like he leaned into praise for that game waaay harder than it honestly deserved.

I'm also surprised he likes Nioh a lot since it basically is a Souls game and he bounced off all of those quite quickly. Excited to listen to the Bombcast now and hear his reasoning etc.

Does this game have a deep, evolving personality-driven story line since you're forced to be Beefhunk McPonytail or did they just not want people to make their own characters? I wouldn't have enjoyed Dark Souls if I couldn't make my own sweet/hideous characters and I couldn't play through Witcher since Geralt was like old toast with optional beard growth.

It's funny you say that because the main character looks pretty much like Samurai Geralt. And that's A.O.K. with me.

@arbitrarywater: Lords of the Fallen is okay, being the first Souls clone is somewhat meaningful. Of course their new game this year looks like shit.

Ugh, yeah, I just don't want to play more Geralt adventures, samurai or not. The game looks so cool though I might just give it a go regardless.

@humanity: he seems to have come around on souls games to some degree (the endless badgering payed off?)

@geirr: Put on a helmet, you're playing a generic dude. Fixed.

also i'm pretty sure nioh is voiced by sean bean.

@ripelivejam: I doubt the badgering helped since Jeff is a very opinionated and stubborn guy, but I agree he does seem to be slowly coming around on his own terms. Let It Die seems like it was some sort of gateway drug for him and now that he got a small taste, Nioh is the straight up pure uncut rock his body craves.

The more stuff i see of this game the more i want to play, despite not enjoying the alpha that much. I never got far enough to fight any of those monster things, didn't even know they were in the game till i saw video. Did jeff play it on that live stream last night? I missed it, also will it be archived at all?

@humanity: I think Bloodborne finally got him into these kinds of games because it helped address his dislike of the Animation Priority nature of the combat (and souls fandom probably was a turnoff too). The faster pace I think was more appealing to him. That's one of the things he seems to not like Monster Hunter as well.

Jeff has always liked Metroidvanias, and some of the Souls games have similar DNA to those kinds of games in terms of exploration (secrets, unlockable shortcuts etc). Makes sense to me that once he really gave one of these games a chance he'd like it. Especially one from a different dev that he doesn't have as strong a negative preconception about.

@ripelivejam: Although his name suggests it, Sean Bean isn't Irish.

The guy voicing William (Ben Peel) is.

It does have a story relating to "the first blonde samurai" which is supposedly a real historical figure. Regarding customization, fashion souls is in full swing here. You can make him look like a bandit, a wealthy samurai with heavy armor and a cool mask, a ninja, a japanese priest, etc. You can bring that gear forward too with the gear feeding mechanic. Some real cool speccing/customization options in there relating to gear on top of the cool looks.

@slag: Yah that theory is also kinda weird to me because Bloodborne is such a specific game that kind of railroads the player into a specific playstyle and then it's take it or leave it basically. The other Souls games let a wider variety of people get into them - like for instance Vinny who could tank his way through them. Bloodborne is like if they took a singular build, and then made an entire game around it. Although now that I think about it, that focus and lack of options might be exactly what made it easier for Jeff to get into as he usually doesn't seem to like too many options and all that jazz.

This game kind of came out of nowhere for me. I had heard about it, but the beta impressions weren't great. Now I feel like I need to play this. It's kind of like the Oni-Souls-Gaiden mashup that's right up my alley.

@humanity: Yeah that sounds right to me, He usually seems to lock onto one perceived optimal method in games and sticks with it as long as it continues to work. That's something he has been very open about gravitating towards doing in the past.

I didn't expect it to be this game, but I figured for awhile now eventually one of these types of games would eventually be up his alley. We'll see how long he sticks with it. Maybe , just maybe, 2017 will finally be the year a Souls-esque game makes GB's GotY top ten. Or maybe he'll put twenty hours into Nioh and call it a day.

9/10 from gamespot