I haven't yet played it, and so I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks about it. I know the game is less like Ninja Gaiden and more like the Souls/Borne games, but I love both, so perhaps I'd really like this game too. I know the game is Team Ninja, though, which is Ninja Gaiden. I'm just curious based on gameplay, its sound design (soundtrack, environmental sounds, creature sounds and the sounds of battle like swords hitting things), the atmosphere/setting, and even the story: how good is all that? I wasn't that interested in it, and I haven't been enough to get the game yet, but I might now be. I may get it tomorrow, but I'm curious before that what you all think about it. Please don't spoil anything.

Edit - I have Divinity Original Sin Enhanced Edition on Xbox One and I've only ever put in an hour or two, basically the very beginning still. Should I try to get into that, or go out and get this and put time into this game first and foremost?

While this could totally be a me problem I've found myself not really getting hooked by the game. Like, I can go through a few levels and it's enjoyable, but with the typical pacing of spending a good chunk of time clearing through a level and then beating the obstacle at the end it's always an undertaking to start the cycle again and there's just nothing outside the combat itself to help pull me along. The more I think about it I realize the problem is that there's very few surprises when it comes to the other features. I've never found a piece of loot that got me excited, and there's been very few moments where I've discovered a path or secret or feature in a level that amazed me. It's fun to slash up monsters though, in many different amusing ways, but I need some variety outside of that.

@jakob187@csl316 It's like the third best game ever made and the only game other than Valkyrie Profile 2 that matches the depth of Vagrant Story. That said I think VS would be marginally better if made in a modern context and does have Break Arts and obviously a better story (though Nioh's story is quite good; but mostly if you like history/other Koei stuff). Like every other tightly tuned RPG it is about 40 hours if played in a relatively fluid/competent fashion, but also has 100-200 hours of optional content or so.

Present top 5:

1. Vagrant Story

2. Super Metroid

3. Nioh

4. Resident Evil 4

5. The Witcher 3

3rd was previously Metroid Prime but is also sometimes A Link to the Past and Super Mario World. Resident Evil 4 is always 4th. Dark Souls 2 (1.0 No Patches)/The Last of Us move down to 9th; Bloodborne and Dark Souls are at like 12.

Pre release (Having played the Alpha/Beta/Last Chance) I figured this would be about as good as Dark Souls 3, which is good but not stellar; certainly not stepping out of the shadow of the Souls series. But they never showed their hand really none of the amazing levels from the back ~60% of the game.

I've put about 8 to 10 hours into it since I got it Friday after hearing them gush about it on the bombcast. It's pretty goddamn rad! The original Dark souls is one of if not my favorite game of all time and I would say Nioh is one of the better takes on the genre. The combat and movement is so buttery smooth and it just feels so good to play. The story is just kind of there for me, but if you have an interest in Japanese history you'll probably get a lot more out of it than me. There is a talking ninja cat with an eye patch though and he seems pretty cool.

I am loving the game honestly, didn't even play the for honor open beta cause i didn't want to tarnish my nioh skills lol. It combines my favorite elements of different games in a unique way and i love the setting. I have divinity original sin on pc, and never got past the intro sequence. Seems like a good game but didn't really pull me in enough to get into it.

It's pretty awesome. The only real negatives I think are that it looks dated, you can kinda tell it was a Ps3 game at some point. And I'm not too invested in the loot system yet. Also kind of light on the story/atmopshere.

But yeah other than those points. The gameplay is super fun. Deep, challenging and overall very well designed. The levels are fun and cleverly routed, And it's actually just a blast to play. You could spend a loooooong time trying to master the combat in this. Much longer than Souls for sure, and longer than games like Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta as well. There's just so many small things you can consider if you want to play perfect. Absolutely fantastic combat, complemented with suitably smart and different enemies. They knocked it out of the park with this one.

I am a bit reserved about Nioh. Not that I don't like it, let the record be known that I think it is one of the best Souls games out there. The part where I am reserved about it, is if I want to call it the best Souls game of all time or not. It is either in first or second place. Coming from someone with like 25+ clears of Dark Souls, 40+ of Dark Souls II and currently only 2 of DSIII (not because that game is bad, XCOM 2 got in the way mostly) that is high praise.

I'm pretty sure it's in second place though. Here's the thing... I don't think the loot in that game is worked out well enough. Finding chests with loot is 99.9% of the time pretty worthless beyond the upgrade materials they provide. There is no reason to try and forge a good weapon early in the game because it will cost massive amounts of gold (which you literally can't afford) to keep it with you for the rest of the game. They could have done more with those forging, upgrading and especially inheritance mechanics. I really love the setting, probably moreso than the dark fantasy setting in Dark Souls, but I just don't think the game looks that good. It also lacks some atmosphere here and there. Dark Souls has plenty of that. I think better execution on a setting I like slightly less is still preferable. I also don't think the submission are worthy content at all. It is pure filler (at least so far). I also don't think the story is engaging.

I realize I sound negative there, but that's because I am arguing why this isn't the best Souls game ever made, so any criticism is fair game at that point. And I am in a very weird place now because I haven't even been able to decide yet if I like Dark Souls III better than DSII (I am a core single player gameplay and competitive PvP player so the original Dark Souls is out of the question).

Right now, I would say Dark Souls II (or perhaps III) is still the best Souls game ever made, but very closely followed by Nioh... probably. Maybe I'll feel different after I finish Nioh a couple of times.

But short answer: yes, it is fantastic.

I'm only a few stages in and I'm loving it way more than I did any Souls game. There's an expertly crafted sense of precision, weight, and fluidity to the combat in this that I just never found in those games. That's not to suddenly dismiss the Souls games' combat or anything, but I personally would find it hard to go back to one of them after playing this.

Then again, aside from Demon's and Bloodborne which I liked but not nearly as much as everyone else, I've never really cared much Souls games. So maybe that's an even bigger point in this game's favor that it was able to convert someone like me.

Aside from that, there's not much I can say to praise this game that hasn't been said already.

I really hope we get a PC release sometime because everything about this game looks phenomenal except for maybe the performance, and a PC release would hopefully fix that. (And I haven't seen fit to pick up a PS4 yet.)

@fredchuckdave: You praise Vagrant Story so frequently and so highly, I keep meaning to play it. But, I can't help but feel that you're setting the rest of us up for disappointment. Best game ever? Ehh...

@babychoochoo: Most people were disappointed by Bloodborne though. Only critics seemed to like it unanimously.

@sinusoidal What are the chances of Sony publishing on PC? Not impossible, but I don't think it's likely.

@zevvion: Glad i'm not the only one that thinks dark souls 2 is the best of that series, bloodborne included. Granted i never got far in demon souls or dark souls 3

Random thought, i wonder what the chances of a "definitive" demon souls on ps4 is? I need to get through that game one day but don't want to hook up a ps3.

@zevvion: Hmm, yeah, Koei/Tecmo PC ports aren't unheard of, but I didn't realize this was also published in part by Sony. Not promising.

@sinusoidal: Well at any rate we can safely say that VS was 17 years ahead of its time and not 25 as I am apt to claim. Kou Shibusawa too strong, advancing history by 8 years; your move, non-existent FFT/FFXII/VS Square team.

@zevvion: You could certainly say the same thing about Dark Souls 2 depending on what part of the internet you hang around. Either way, I still wouldn't say "most." A lot? Sure, maybe. But in my experience, most people seemed fine with it.

I love it. I think I'm in the minority who has their top 3 Souls games as

1. Dark Souls

2. Nioh

3. Bloodborne

The one on one fight with the samurai at the end of the first aisle is kicking my ass. I think I'm going to have to come back to him.

The amount of Ninja Gaiden II in Nioh is surprising, and I love NGII. Also, this game is long. I don't know my hour count but I think I'm 3 quarters of the way through the game and I feel like I've been playing it for an eternity. I think it's longer than any Souls game. Also, if the next Souls game doesn't have transmogrification Fromsoft is FUCKING UP.

I have only two issues with it: the game is not a looker no matter what setting you put it on, and the enemy variety is lacking. Humans, skeleton warriors and the horned yokai make up the vast majority of the game.

Does anyone have a strategy on when to visit shrines? I feel worried about visiting them too often so the enemies don't respawn, but I then get jumped and I'm way back 15-30 minutes before. Is it a better idea to hit the shrine often, like clear an area, hit the shrine, repeat? It makes it frustrating and I really love the game, it just is difficult to keep playing after losing an hour of progress.

@stanleytree: The amrita counter changes color when you have enough to level up. You could use that as an indicator of when you actually have something to lose.

So far I'm really enjoying it. That being said I find myself getting frustrated at dying because the mechanics are hard for me to grasp.

People play these games differently and you've got to do what's most entertaining for you. Personally, I enjoy clearing part of an area over and over until I feel confident in my understanding of it, hitting the shrine each time, and then moving to the next, building up a routine. The resultant leveling also makes the game a bit easier. The combat never gets boring to me.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but this sounds like you don't know what you're doing. Why would you not use a new Shrine? The game is structured in a way that if you discover a new Shrine, you've made progress and you should want to continue forth from that one if you die, not the previous one. Or are you saying you clear an area of enemies and then hit the same shrine again? There's almost no point in doing that, but the play time between two Shrines should be 5-15 minutes tops. Also, look for shortcuts.

@ntm: Divinity Original Sin has some fantastic combat, especially with some of the tweaks added in the Enhanced Edition. However, if you're looking for a good story in an RPG it's not really the place for that. The writing is charmingly goofy at best, and generic fantasy slop at worst. I really liked it, but if the combat and exploration aren't enough for you on their own, it's a good 50 hours of that.

@stanleytree: I never backtrack to a shrine unless I think I've missed an area or Kodama. I basically just clear my way to the second or third shrines and checkpoint there. If you die, just make sure to be careful so you can pick up your stuff on the way and then keep heading towards the next shrine instead of running back. Basically, I only touch shrines once per shrine, and then every time I die for some reason or another.

Also try not to think of dying as losing progress. By virtue of playing through half an area once, you have learned what to look out for, you've learned the hazards and you know how to fight the enemies there. You have made progress already, you just gotta use what you learned to get back in there faster than the first time. A 30min area the first time is probably more like a 10min one the second time.

@arbitrarywater: Yeah, I kind of knew that. That said, is it more akin to Diablo 3 where it's just boring ass dialogue, or is it more like the Fable games? I got pretty bored of it last night, just as I've done in the past, but I feel like I need to give it more of a chance. I like Fable, so if the story/dialogue is like that, then I don't mind that. If the game is a lot like Diablo 3, then yeah I'm probably not going to get into that. Exploration is a good aspect in games.

@zevvion: Huh, I didn't know that. My friend believes it's the best Souls-like game, and I think it's pretty great too. I'm talking about Bloodborne. Also, about your first post; I understand why you like it (as you described why), but Dark Souls 3 I wasn't a fan of. I didn't play any of them except for Demon's Souls online. I had no issue with the games until the very end of Demon's Souls where a clearly much more leveled human player came into my game, and killed me once, and then came back again and did it again. No matter my level or skill at playing the game, they were going to beat me since I would attack a few times and they'd heal all their health, then attack me taking about half my health down. I didn't like that as all I wanted to do was see the game through. Eh, anyways yeah, I loved going through them all back-to-back, but three was the worst one to me. Dark Souls 2 was my second least favorite, but I still really liked two a lot. I didn't like the bosses in three, the world (going back to Anor Londo was cool, though), and the soundtrack wasn't memorable in any way whatsoever. It was okay overall to me. Sorry, that was somewhat off topic.

@ntm: Different things for different people. I have limited experience with Demon's Souls so I don't know how PvP works there, but in most Souls games it is bound to your character level and/or acquired souls. So no one can be significantly higher level than you. They can be significantly more effective because they have honed their build to perfection. But that is one more thing I like about it and one more thing I disliked about Bloodborne. Builds are near-pointless, it doesn't have variety either. It forces you into a playstyle, is very monotone in atmosphere and it is way, way too easy.

It's difficult to gauge what most people on the planet think of course, but when you are deep into a game you are likely to engage with the community. Otherwise, you fall severely behind on the game. And if you look at the core of that community (the people that don't play those games two or three times, but the people that keep playing them) they all moved on from Bloodborne. Many returned to DSII fairly quickly and some have moved to DSIII.

I'm really loving it. And I mean love. I played the aplha/beta and could sense how much I was in to it so dropped them before getting in too deep.

Important to know about me, biographically, is that I am a very long time fan of all things Samurai. Onimusha and Way of the Samurai are among my favourite games of all time. While I was entranced by Demon's Souls early on, I never felt pushed to complete it or follow up with the other souls games.

Nioh is, in many ways, my dream Onimusha sequel. (And I'm sorry to keep harping on that game, but did no one else realize that both these games have the same intro at a high-level? This is the same myth, in a way, right? Guess I'll learn more as the story continues.)

My personal experience with Nioh is as a generally very-slow-paced hack & slash. I'm the kind of player who walks forward on the map, sword-drawn, looking around corners, waiting for patrolling enemies. My playstyle is heavy on parrying and dodging. Basically, I am living the Duel to the Death dream. Two dudes just looking at each other. Enemy charges! *dodge* Cut! *repeat*. It's immensely satisfying to just wait for the perfect opening and then strike. Walking through the tall grass last night and getting jumped by axe-men was amazing.

So, the combat flow all by itself is incredble, but the loot system, and the maps are really, really strong too. The maps! Seriously, the maps. Again, not a souls vet, by I'm really appreciating the smart shortcuts and alternate routes they've laid out.

@stanleytree hopefully this isn't an annoying tip, but I think key (or should I say ki) to this game is to perceive of progress as more than just making the next level. Progress here is your: Knowledge of the Map, Knowledge of the Enemies & Their Patterns, Loot Acquired, Level / Statistics, and Player Skill. These are very meaningful I think in a game like this, and a better way of signposting your progress than simple map checkpoints. The more you play the more you will see harrowing fights become cake.

I was extremely skeptical at first since I find most games that draw inspiration from Souls lacking in their own creativity or missing something. But Nioh surprised me with its technical chops, and it plays different enough to not feel merely derivative. For starters, I initially thought the Ki Pulse mechanic was pointless, but there's actually a lot of depth to it and a nice sense of progression in the form of skills that complement it (especially the one that restores a little extra stamina when you switch stances). One on one fights against humanoid opponents like Muneshige and Yuki-Onna are a blast and I enjoy the little backstories you get with each guardian spirit.

On the other hand, the soundtrack and level design seem lackluster to me compared to Fromsoft's take, they serve their purpose well enough though. Loot system was frustrating before I realized most purples come from revenants (joining the clan with luck bonus helped). I also feel like stats are somewhat inconsequential, as long as you throw points into the main stat of your weapon it's kind of hard to screw up your build, and I see most people spec in Spirit because it just seems like a no-brainer to get those extra bonuses. On top of that, elements and Discord seem way too strong and you don't get much benefit from ignoring them like you would going pure physical in Souls.

Regardless, I'll probably try additional playthroughs with Kusari/ninjutsu and Axe/heavy armor, I'm still surprised how much I enjoy it. And while I think the level design is hit or miss, it's still fun to explore and try to spot bait but fall for it anyway (my whole run through the Iga ninja playhouse).

I can't get the hang of Ki pulses in the heat of combat and I feel like I should be switching stances instead of sticking with one. All this thinking is ruining the game for me even though I am enjoying it.

@alistercat: Since those techniques are advanced, you don't need to instantly learn them. Especially not all at the same time. My approach early on was to decide my stance depending on the enemy I faced. High against the crawly guys and the big yokai where I wanted the extra range and then mid for most other enemies when I wanted to get quick hits in and dodge more reliably. You don't necessarily need to switch during fights. But it's fun to do once you start figuring out enemy types to the point that you can relax a bit and try stuff out.

As for Ki pulses, just try to do them as often as possible. It'll eventually become habit, and you'll start getting the timing down for perfect ones more often too. If you miss doing one it's not really a big deal, but just building the habit is the key part. Do it when you swing on boxes in the environment, do it on every yokai stamina drain bullshit thingy. Go kill some easy enemies in the first mission and just make sure to get perfect pulses as much as you can. I got hit constantly early on because I was looking too much at the stamina bar trying to figure out the pulse timing. Now after 25 something hours (probably more like 40 with the betas) I just get it every time without looking or consciously thinking about it.

EDIT: Oh and remember to prioritize defense. If you need to block or roll before the pulse is ready, you better block or roll and let that stamina go. Sometimes you just ain't got the room to do what you want.

I've rarely switched from mid. Ki pulses is about as complicated as I want to get. Enjoying this a lot. The loot aspect and the mission structure makes me think of a Destiny equivalent for people who can't shoot.

@ntm: In terms of writing Divinity definitely skews far closer to something like Fable than Diablo 3 (which isn't a bad textbook definition of "generic fantasy dreck") It's filled with a lot of intentionally silly and whimsical stuff that hits more often than it misses, but the overarching main plot plays itself mostly straight to no great effect. To their credit, the developers at Larian sharpened up the script for the Enhanced Edition, but that just means that the story is coherent and boring instead of confusing and boring.

@alistercat said:

Have you purchased the skill that makes your dodge your ki pulse? Total game changer for me when I discovered that. Now I don't need to fumble around with the R1 button in combat, which always felt completely unnatural.

Also, I've found that stance change isn't a huge deal mid-combat. The skills that give you bonuses for switching stances on ki pulse rarely seem worth it me. It's more about picking the right stance for the right enemy, i.e. high stance for the big armored dudes, low stance for the quicker enemies, and mid as a general fall back.

I enjoyed it up through the first boss and then PSN pooped the bed and I guess I didn't set my PS4 as my primary PS4 (even though I own no other PS4s) so now I can't play because our digital future is an occasional nightmare.

You can get to it later. The game is not short, so there is plenty of time to improve your skill over the course of the game. I got away with pure mid-stance for the entire first zone. Never even switched. I'm confident you can stick to one stance for the entire game if you want, but you do benefit from learning to switch. Low stance always hits the dudes that are low to the ground while the other two might strike over them. You can start by switching based on the enemy you're fighting. Then move on to switching mid-combat later.

Right now, if I switch to a different stance after a combo, I gain more Ki and increased damage, so it does help a lot. Coupled with the fact that some stances only have certain moves, switching things up is a good idea.

@fredchuckdave: There is only Vagrant Story, my friend. No other game exists.

One tip that helped me:

When out in the open, no enemies around, practice the visual timing of your ki pulse. You'll notice when the character swings their weapon that these blue dot-lights pepper the air. They'll coalesce around you tightly right before they disperse. Practice just slicing the open air, then hitting the ki pulse right as those lights group together.

After I nailed doing this vs the open air, doing it in combat was far easier. It becomes muscle memory.

I've decided Soul Matching doesn't matter as the better gear just comes to you with time. It's mainly there if you want a specific property to carry with you.

@geraltitude said:

Thanks. I thought about that and tried a bit but the problem becomes that I'm looking at my character and waiting rather than the enemy. meaning I usually get stabbed.

I feel pretty close to the end and still really love the stage design and working my way through those levels.

The bosses, after having a real strong start, have just become kind of a huge bummer.

@efesell: Yeah, there have been some really cool level designs. I've discovered I really don't like the side missions though. I have already cleared those levels top to bottom, so going in to kill two giant tongue dudes somewhere feels like busy work to me. Also agree on the bosses. Ice Lady was the last good one I recall. I think Cut Scene Girl has a great moveset that could have been an epic fight, but for some reason she is just too easy to beat. Perhaps they should have made her a bit faster.

I haven't gotten this game yet. I actually don't know when I'll get it. I'm currently going through Skyrim Special Edition since I never did that (I have put 50 or so hours before deciding to finally just see the main quest through before doing anything else) and I'm probably going to play it and do everything I can in it until the Switch and Breath of the Wild come out. I'm liking it vastly more than I did originally, as in when I played it on Xbox 360 for several hours, bored to sleep when I borrowed it a couple of times from my brother.

Im not that far in i think. I just reached Uma-Bozu (something like that). That boss looks bad and feels terrible, in fact that whole map design that presides that boss was my least favorite so far. Im not enjoying it as much as i have the Souls/Borne games. Nothing really stands out to me in terms of the look of the game. Lore and story seems super throwaway as well.

So I finished this a couple days ago and have now been playing the post game which is a lot of fun. Upon story completion new things open up and new motivations to keep playing come about which is really cool.

The post game seems to be designed for the player to basically overpower themselves to the nth degree. With the change to enemy health and I think boss aggression I'm actually enjoying my NG+ playthrough more than the vanilla one. It's still a bit of a pushover but now that I've got everything unlocked it's more about playing stylishly than it is overcoming challenge. Working out attack approaches for each enemy that are simultaneously optimal as well as look cool has been a lot of fun. The added NG+ features of new loot tiers, upgradable spirits and weapon enhancing have given me that bug to min max my character too.

This has definitely set a standard for combat design in these 'Souls-like' games, they made all the changes I wanted to see in Bloodborne and then some. If the level themeing wasn't 70% caves 20% castles and 10% forests and if the bosses were more aggressive, fleshed out and had more health this game would've been magical. It's already in my top 3 games of this genre and it has systems I actively dislike in most games (randomly generated loot) but it manages to implement those things in a way that isn't a positive or a negative, so it isn't too egregious.

I hope both From Software and Team Ninja continue to learn from each others strengths.

@ivdamke: What is the new loot tier? One above exotics? Or how does that work?

I still have two more missions to go, For Honor seems to be taking more of my time.

@ivdamke: Divine gear is the new loot tier and yea it's 1 above Exotic, it's colour coded green and has 1 extra special effect slot. The thing with Divine gear though is you can enhance it to +1/2/3/4 etc making it dramatically stronger but also adding more permanence to your items. You generally choose a set that you want to build your character around and then craft/find that set and use it for the rest of the game. The way the enhancing works is you Soul Match your Divine items with any other Divine item that's 1 +rank above your item to enhance it. Also when Soul Matching Divine with Divine you get a (I think?) 50% cost reduction and when you Soul Match 2 of the same Divine item you get a (once again I think?) 70% price reduction.

It not entirely but for the most part fixes my general distaste for the loot system all the way up to this point. I don't like expendable items in games so now that I've got items to work to I'm enjoying the game even more.

I also actually finally looked at Refashioning and didn't realise but you don't need the items you want to Refashion your armour to look like at all. You just get to Refashion using any of the weapons or armor appearances that the Blacksmith has Smithing Texts for. It's also incredibly cheap so I've been fashioning that shit up in full Tiger looking shit with a mane and everything.

@ivdamke: Game becomes Diablo on NG+ more or less, you can make your character completely broken. The AI on bosses does get better on NG+ as well which is cool especially for later dojo missions.

You seem to be evaluating the game based on difficulty when you had 50 hours with the beta, as though you expect the developers to tune the game assuming the player would have that experience.

General reminder: Never evaluate a souls game based on difficulty unless it's the first one you play.

@fredchuckdave: Okay that last bit seems ridiculous.

@fredchuckdave: Difficulty, no. Challenge: yes. No Souls game is worth much praise if it is a push-over. Not saying Nioh is in general, but it definitely is a bit much in spots. I don't feel like the Diablo template works as well for it. I still like it though.

I just feel like for the most part I didn't learn how to beat Niohs bosses I just learned how to beat a Nioh boss fight and then that worked for the whole game.

Nah, I'm all about learning boss attacks. More than in any Souls game. I'm now at the point where I want to push on, though. Side missions are getting to be a chore so I'll let the gear and Amrita flow on the main path.