Nation,

We killed Osama Bin Laden, we did it.  I'll be the first to admit it, we did it.  We also did it using "enhanced interrogation", and over the many years...it worked.  All of it was built up for this one focal moment.

Snapping fingers off, water-boarding, cutting fingertips off, abusing loved ones in front of the terrorists, etc...it worked at the end of the day.  So for all those who say it would never work and it was just torture...what say you now?

Did the ten years of post-911 enhanced interrogation have proven to work at the end of the day...or didn't they?

If you push R2 while doing Kano's choke move he'll do an enhanced choke, I think it works better than the regular one. 

How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL?

I'm not sure the 'advanced interrogation' had a whole lot to do with it. The story I read in the paper said that they got more information out of people from standard interrogation than they ever did water-boarding guys.

Obama is a fan of renegade Sam Fisher. I approve.

I'd strongly suggest watching the movie "Unthinkable" which covers exactly the issue you mentioned: how far should we go to protect others (in this case American citiziens). It also criticizes the hypocrisy of the Americans regarding the issue of personal rights vs national security.

Seeing "OBL" as an abbreviation for Osama Bin Laden is weird to me because I've never been somewhere where he was discussed often enough to warrant an acronym.

Maybe it works, but other methods have been proven to work better. Also, even if those methods did work better, it wouldn't be worth it.

" Seeing "OBL" as an abbreviation for Osama Bin Laden is weird to me because I've never been somewhere where he was discussed often enough to warrant an acronym. "

" How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL? "

" @bonorbitz said:

" How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL? "

We don't. Kaos is just being obtuse and sensationalistic because that's what he does. Cause he's an ass. "

I'm no fan of torture but man I wish OBL had gotten a taste of that "enhanced interrogation" before bitting it

" @Slaker117 said:

" @bonorbitz said:

" How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL? "

We don't. Kaos is just being obtuse and sensationalistic because that's what he does. Cause he's an ass. "

I saw the George Bush avatar as I was reading the initial post and was trying to figure out what angle this was coming from... "

What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you actually trying to say it's okay to do things like abuse loved ones in front of terrorists?

When time is of the essence and lives depend on it, I'd say torture is the best way to get information from non-compliant individuals.

I find the whole "let's celebrate and wave our american flags because we totally murdered a bad guy" very morbid. So let's not even get started on torture.

I agree with what someone said earlier.  If we're talking war situations, terrorism, yes, it's worth it.  If we're talking standard criminal issues, definitely not.

" I agree with what someone said earlier.  If we're talking war situations, terrorism, yes, it's worth it.  If we're talking standard criminal issues, definitely not. "

Hey if Jack Bauer does it I'm all for it.

I'm fairly certain that the big news is that enhanced interrogation like waterboarding DIDN'T have any impact on catching Osama Bin Laden. I mean, when Donald Rumsfield says it wasn't a factor, I'd be likely to believe him.

Are you insane? You actually condone torture?

I like how OBL is totally an acronym now. 

Wait a second, I thought it was the all the bombs dropped on Iraq that caught Osama?

This whole situation is really bringing out the worst in people. Osama Bin Laden is dead and gone forever. Let's stop trying to throw ethics out the window in the name of safety and freedom, okay?

" What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you actually trying to say it's okay to do things like abuse loved ones in front of terrorists? "

I was just watching the news and they said enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with it. Even Donald Rumsfield said it didn't have a part in. If that guy says something like that considering the circumstances I feel I have to believe it. But who knows it seems a bunch of outlets are saying different stuff.

From what I read, the key information regarding Osama's whereabouts was obtained through normal interrogation. Personally, I think "enhanced" interrogation should be outlawed, whether or not it works. Otherwise, we are no better than the terrorists we are fighting.

" I was just watching the news and they said enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with it. Even Donalds Rumsfield said it didn't have a part in. If that guy says something like that considering the circumstances I feel I have to believe it. But who knows it seems a bunch of outlets are saying different stuff. "

" @melcene: You say it's ok to do so because it leads to information that might be useful, however you don't take into consideration that the fact that it was obtained through torture makes it tainted. If you've being abused mentally or physically beaten for days at a time, you'll eventually tell your interrogators something, anything, just to make it stop. That does not make that information true."

It's only worth when you know that the knowledge can prevent an immediate threat.

" Are you insane? You actually condone torture? "

There is a difference between waterboarding (which was only done to three people) and enhanced interrogation, which used stress positions, etc. And it does look like some information that came from Khalid Sheik Mohammed (one of the three who was waterboarded) did aid in finding OBL. But we still don't know for sure (and probably won't for a very long time). I don't see a problem with enhanced interrogation, and from what I've heard from people who know at the Pentagon, their techniques work surprisingly well. They say the same for waterboarding, although the same guys always told me that anything worse than waterboarding would probably cease producing any decent intelligence. KSM gave quite a bit of decent intel. But even those in charge of interrogation knew they couldn't use that on just anyone.

So, does enhanced interrogation work? It seems to. Is it worth it? Probably only in situations where we know that the subject knows things we need to know. Did it have much to do with capturing OBL? Reports seem to indicate that it did have at least a minor role, but all the details will likely stay classified for a very long time. Is it good that OBL is dead? Undoubtedly. Will it make a huge difference now, ten years after 9/11? I doubt it.

" The guy on my icon killed Osama Bin Fawdin. "

" @Pibo47: Let's say this, a guy we kidnap knows about a nuke going off in NYC, and it goes off in a matter of hours.  He's not talking...are those millions of people in NYC fucked?  He wins? "

" @KaosAngel said:

" @Pibo47: Let's say this, a guy we kidnap knows about a nuke going off in NYC, and it goes off in a matter of hours.  He's not talking...are those millions of people in NYC fucked?  He wins? "

How do you know he knows? "

" @Aishan said:

" @KaosAngel said:

" @Pibo47: Let's say this, a guy we kidnap knows about a nuke going off in NYC, and it goes off in a matter of hours.  He's not talking...are those millions of people in NYC fucked?  He wins? "

How do you know he knows? "

The CIA and NSA caught him through his emails and cellphone conversations.  They know it's going to happen but not the details. "