I know Majora's Mask has long been a popular game to debate, but having just quit Majora's Mask halfway through yesterday, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

Majora's Mask has been in my backlog for years. When the 3DS version came out, I thought "finally, this is how I'll play it." I played the 3DS Ocarina and thought they did a fantastic job with it, and from what I understand, the same attention was paid to MM's updated version. Long story short, I had the 3DS version for a short time but didn't get around to playing it before I had a sudden money emergency and I had to return it. Because life. Anyway, I that wasn't going to stop me, so I loaded up the Virtual Console version on my Wii and got down to business. And then I quit after a week because fuck that game.

I want to start by saying that this game had a lot of potential to be my very favorite game in a franchise that I love a lot. They take a lot of interesting risks, the game is flat out weird, and I think the overall premise is really unique. On top of that it does a lot of things that I enjoyed in Ocarina and later Wind Waker that appealed to me in those games. But all of my goodwill was burned here.

I didn't really mind the 3 day repeating cycle, that was one of the things I thought was good, actually. I didn't mind losing stuff when I had to go back to the first day (until it actually mattered, then I REALLY minded it), I didn't mind constantly switching masks, the arcane save mechanic, etc. But what I really did mind was the tedium, the minutia. And the fucking mini games. Now, I'm usually not a total completionist in games, I'm more of a 75% guy. But I at least like to get all of the heart pieces and upgrades in Zelda games, and when I have to do things that I straight up hate to get things I want or need, it rubs me the wrong way. Exactly how many heart pieces are hidden behind shooting shit with the bow and arrow with a timer again? No thanks. I have to Goron Roll in a maze to get a piece? I have to Goron Roll in a race to upgrade the sword? I have to Goron roll in more than one dungeon???? You get my drift, I hated the Goron roll (and I'm TERRIBLE at doing it. It's not all me, though, that N64 camera is just...) In the end, the Goron Roll is what made me quit. I beat the Snowfall dungeon after hours of rolling across ramps, rolling around snow drifts, falling to the basement and climbing up, only to have to do it again. I got all the fairy pieces, beat the boss, but then I didn't have enough time to return the fairies, so I had to go to the first day again, and the fairies were gone. But goddammit, I wanted that stupid magic meter upgrade! So I went to Snowfall again, and started getting the fairies AGAIN, and started falling off of ramps with he Goron Roll AGAIN, and that was the end for me.

Gordon rolling aside, I know every Zelda game hides things behind mini games, this is nothing new. And I'm one of those people that didn't mind hitting the dude 500 times with my sword in wind waker, so my threshold for total bullshit is kind of high. But never in my life was I so frustrated at the sheer amount of mini games, and bad ones at that, than I was in this game. You can tell that it was 2000 just by the amount of Mario Party you have to endure here. And I don't even dislike Mario Party. But I don't want that in a Zelda game. And I really dislike archery in these games. Hell, I didn't even like using the bow in Link to the Past, a game that I would almost argue is perfect. But one thing I really want out of a new Zelda game is for Nintendo to quit putting things I want, optional or not, behind mini games. No archery, no racing, no competing for anything against a timer. Maybe they fixed that in Twilight or Skyward, I didn't play those so I don't know (I do want to play Twilight when the Wii U version comes out, but I have a sense of dread about it because I know it has its own share of big problems). But I have a feeling that those games are lousy with mini games too. And bad mechanics (looking at you, Skywayd Sword and Wiimote).

I don't know. This post is a disorganized, garbled mess. I realize that. But I had to vent because I was so damned disappointed. I was so excited three hours in, Majora's Mask. And then the honeymoon wore off and now I'm divorcing you for leaving the toilet seat up.

If I get the chance to get the 3DS version again, after I stop being mad, I MIGHT give it another shot. I know mechanically it's a little smoother, at least. But I also know that if I want to play it the way I like playing Zelda games, that the problems will still be there and my already high threshold for total bullshit is going to need to get higher in a powerful spiritual way. And I don't know that it's gonna happen.

Nobody needs to respond to this, everything about this game has been said a million times already. I just needed to get some frustration out. Now...back to A Link Between Worlds.

I love MM, it's one of my top 3, and this is the first time I've had someone bring up the plethora of minigames. I actually have to agree with you, I haven't played it in years, but I thought back to the moment to moment of that game, and hell if there aren't a lot of those minigames in there...

Weirdly I never had problems with the Goron Roll rubbing against the camera, I'm also one of those freaks who never had any problem with Skyward Swords controls, and think the game holds up pretty well, as long as they take out half of those @^%$&* Demise fights if they do an HD version of that game.

Strange complaints, the minigames are pretty much the least important part of that whole game. Also, the Goron roll was the only ability I actually liked, it allows you to quickly move around the map and smash through everything. The other abilities are boring or so badly designed and not fun to use, like the Zora swim.

The problem I have with Majora's Mask is that it feels like a 5 hour game padded out to 20. There are only 4 dungeons and the rest of the time is spent doing tedious tasks and repeating the same sequence of events over and over. The game felt like a chore the entire time I was playing, even in dungeons which should have been the highpoint I had to rush around and make sure time didn't expire and lose all my progress.

I think there are so many worse abilities in the game than the Goron roll, which is fun as shit to use in the overworld, and the Snowfall dungeon generally signposts where you're meant to use it with "yo here's a big-ass walkway and ramp, and possibly some ice so you can get your spin going first". The Deku scrub abilities are way more obnoxious, between the incredibly hard to judge range of his bubble shot, and the annoying burrow-and-release animation time of going into those dumb flowers and then gliding around.

There are a lot of minigames in the game, but MOST of them are just random pieces of heart. Yes, the Goron race is needed to upgrade the sword but it's not punishingly difficult.

Then again, your whole post is confusing, because hitting that dude 500 times in Wind Waker (isn't there some reward for hitting him 1000 times, or is that the trainer guy in Phantom Hourglass?) is infinitely more tedious than any of the minigames in Majora's Mask.

Also Skyward Sword is actually pretty minor on minigames, and the handful of minigames are mostly just ways to gamble Rupees than I don't think ever yield a unique item of any sort (there's a the mole you play Minesweeper with, there's the weird parachute game on the clown island, there's the shitty bamboo chopping game, all of them for money or crafting materials).

This is more of a blog post ranting, I get that, but it sounds like you just had a bad day playing this game. I'm not sure how you ran out of time to return the fairies considering that the cave is right outside the dungeon at the bottom of the ramp and it would've taken you like 7 seconds to get to, but whatever. If you ever do pick up the game again, maybe don't do the things that annoy you so much? If you aren't concerned about 100%, then why would you make yourself play optional parts that you can't stand?

I would just focus on beating the game instead of getting every single heartpiece, you'll have more fun for sure.

I'm sorry a Goron roll during optional mini games made you quit one of the most interesting video game sequels of all time?

I love MM because of how weird it is. I hate MM mask because of the stupid time bullshit. It gets easier later, yes, but it still takes away more from the game then it adds. Give me double the shitty mini games, but take out the time bullshit and I'll be a happy man.

No, that mini game wasn't what made me quit. It was redoing the Snowfall dungeon with all the goon rolling because I was trying to do something that was entirely optional (collect all the fairies) for a second time.

I ran out of time because I'm bad at the game. I finished the dungeon with very little time left on the third day and then didn't realize that fairy cave was literally RIGHT THERE for some reason. Had I not felt the pressure of the impending doom, I probably would have taken an extra minute and figured that out (isn't there a forum thread around here about our biggest idiotic blunders in video games?).

I used the Goron Roll and mini games as examples in my blog rant because I really disliked doing it, but what I failed to properly spell out even though I now realize that would have been important, is the larger context of what these things imply: Using the Goron Roll so much in dungeon 2 (and yes, the deku mask before it, although I hadn't fully realized it at the time) was where Nintendo was saying in a Nintendo-like fashion that "yes, this whole game is going to be one gimmick after another, because it's 2000 and we're Nintendo and that's super what we're into right now." It's true that I'm the real problem, the fact that I'm actually not good at this video game at all mixed with what I do and do not like to do in video games and what I'm willing to accept is what REALLY made me quit playing this game. But that doesn't change the fact that there are some things in this game that could have been done differently, or avoided entirely, that would have improved this experience. And I do still think that my opinion might improve a great deal with the 3DS version, maybe the things they did fix really will help. But if I don't go back to it, at least I now have some context as to why people's opinions vary so wildly on this game, even if it's not the context I was expecting.

Did you use the Reverse Song of Time to slow down the clock? That should give you plenty of time to complete any dungeon as long as you don't try to start it at the end of the third day or something.

I know what you mean.... Actually I think it's more like a Dark Souls "when it clicks then you get it." Something weird in it's mechanics and it's design different from other games in the series.... but then I cannot seem to get past the snow dungeon 16 years later.

I love Majora's Mask. I also used a walkthrough to get through a lot of Majora's Mask. So... yeah, that's a pretty big conditional like, I guess :|

I played through the game again on 3DS and quickly realized I had no interest in collecting everything. There is quite a lot of tedious tasks in that game. I did do it once on N64 though, so I must have been able to tolerate it as a kid? I don't know. I didn't love the Goron roll, and there definitely are some annoying spots where it's required, but it wasn't my least favorite ability.

I tried playing it for the first time as the 3DS remake. I quit it too. I spent days irl time playing it until I realized the game was stressing me out for reals to unhealthy levels.

Pretty much this. Once you know the Reverse Song of Time, you should never be cutting anything close.

I love Majora's Mask, one of my all time favorites, but I'll have to concede to your points. Fairy collecting in dungeons is particularly my biggest grievance with the game. Even when replaying it recently on 3DS I was very frustrated with the rolling in Snowfall, but that's the worst it gets.

I don't often think about the mini-games as a critique of Majora's Mask because they exist in some form in every Zelda game, but MM has its share of frustrating ones. The bomb tossing Minigame in particular can be a pain due to camera angles, positioning and the time limit. I will defend the archery, as I always felt it worked very well on the N64 and the 3DS motion controls actually improve upon them by adding an extra degree of precision. The shooting gallery mini-game, however, is pretty unforgiving.

Hopefully you cool off and give it another shot some day. Skip the minigames if you like, but the side quests involving NPCs in the world are where that game shines.

This is weird, we've had like the opposite experience with this game. I've probably beaten Ocarina of Time a dozen time, at least, it's been one of my favorite games since... well, 1998. But I only just played Majora's Mask for the first time two years ago, 14 years after it's original release. I decided just to play it, and not rely on a guide. And I loved it. Loved almost everything about it. And the funny thing is, I have no memory of minigames. Maybe it's because I didn't give a shit about going out of my way for heart pieces- if you've played Zelda games before, you severely don't need them. There's not much challenge in that game that a fairy in a bottle can't fix. So either I just didn't stumble across these minigames, or they didn't give me much trouble. Either way, I think the Virtual Console was actually the right place to play it, especially if you're a fan of Ocarina. (I had my Wii hooked up to a CRT with component cables, it was perfect.) It was so cool to see a game built from the same pieces as Ocarina over 20 years later. It was like they tore my favorite game apart, and put the pieces back together in this different, bizarre, often creepy way. Until recently I've felt it was too soon to play again, but maybe I'll pick up that 3DS version shortly.

Just wanted to update this. I finished the 3DS version of the game a few days ago (was finally able to buy it again) and I have to say the 3DS version was so much more enjoyable to play than the N64 version was on the WII with a GameCube controller as I originally was. All of the improvements that I wanted regarding the movement were there, and the changes made to streamline the 3DS version elsewhere (graphics, save system, etc) all GREATLY improved my experience. I was able to do all the things I was originally banging my head against with relative ease and the actual difficult things felt difficult for the right reasons. So, yeah. Now that I'm finished, this is definitely one of my favorite Zelda games. I still think there are entirely too many mini games and that some of the side quests felt more tedious here than in almost every other Zelda game I've played so far. But I still think it's a magnificent game and there's plenty of weird and cool stuff to enjoy here.

I liked the Goron Roll. Weird. Total agreement about the mini-games though. Still a great game though, you should finish it.

Also, don't worry about Twilight Princess. It gets a lot of shit, but it's a great game and you will enjoy it. It's biggest problems lie outside the dungeons, which is always the least important part of a Zelda game. The dungeons themselves rock my socks off. You just have to get through some crappy sections of being a dog, escorting a wagon, etc. to get to those awesome dungeons. Also it has the longest, most boring, most tedious intro to just about any game I've ever seen. It takes so long to get going that it physically hurts me. Expect to hate the absolute hell out of the first 1-2 hours.

it's a game I want to like..... but I never gotten past the snow dungeon.

@davidh219 said:

Look, that lost cat isn't going to find itself. Also, those goats aren't going to herd themselves.

@youeightit: I still don't get what it is about the original save system that wrecks people. Did you ever load the same save twice?

I also don't really take your point about the mini games. Particularly if you mean the "pay 20 rupees to shoot squids and maybe win a heart piece" stuff, because I don't think there's all that much of that stuff, and also getting all 52 heart pieces is very much a 100% completionist junkie thing. But I feel like this is a hangup which would have to be taken apart in too much detail to be worth it, and it's not like internet forum discussions make people change their tastes in games, so I won't labour the point.

For what it's worth, I mainly like that there is so much stuff off the beaten track to do in MM -- far more than in any other Zelda game to date -- maybe because if it's not in the main path, then Nintendo has more latitude to make content that doesn't just play itself so that the average player can see the ending through, like a movie or a roller coaster ride. (Although even the main path through MM was designed to throw players in the deep end...maybe that's part of why I like this game so much? Because it's one big side quest?) I guess if I had any objection about the side-stuff often being fragmented into bite-size pieces, it's overshadowed by a sense that I'm outside of the bounds of the theme park, and out in the wild with the actual lions and whatnot. Make me think of how friggen awesome it'd be if Zelda U turns out to be filled with side-dungeons. Man, that'd be the best...

@crithon: you didn't like making soup?!? That was such a cool dungeon...

majora's mask is the only good zelda game and the only one that's important and matters

i will die on this hill

@youeightit:

I thought Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time both are way over-rated... I didn't really get into them back on the N64 days and recently tried them both on the 3DS and thought both were bad.