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TheManWithNoPlan

TOO MANY VIDEO GAMES

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TheManWithNoPlan

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#1  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

@ares42: Here's what it looks like for me. Which is definitely closer (although not 100%) to the pure black example in the image posted above. Very far off from being the right image. The problem is the black boxes the text sit in. The webpage behind it all is fine.

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Here's an example of it being totally fine for me - discord's dark theme. This is how (in my opinion) you do a dark theme right for something text based.

No Caption Provided

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TheManWithNoPlan

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#2  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

I apologize if others have seen me post about this in like 5 other feedback threads, but since this is the stickied one, I thought I'd leave a copy/paste of some of my thoughts on a real issue some of us have been having with the switch to dark only theme. (and please hear me out and don't shrug this off as a dark vs. light theme thing)

First off, I don't have a problem with the layout or the black backgrounds. This is strictly an issue with the white text and the problems it creates with straining and hurting eyes. There is an effect where the white text creates this kind of top to bottom stretching of light you get when seeing a blurry light off in the distance (if that makes sense). Which makes it even more uncomfortable to actually read the text, let alone the problems when I look away. Which brings me to the second point - The white text is basically a more laser focused version of the white background. The blinding light of the light theme some of ya'll talk about is painfully present in the large blocks of text here. I have lines of this focused light burned in my eyes and when I look away it's still there. This actually hurts my eyes and head after a bit, with a large white page my eyes just adjust to the light. They can't adjust to small little shapes and figures blasting into my eyes.

The comments section: I've seen mention of the quality of the design of the comments, but I will only talk about them in one particular aspect (one that I like in fact). They are much easier to read than the forums or wiki. The slightly grey hue to the text against the grey background takes away this problem completely (for me at least). I use the dark theme in discord all the time because it's not neon white text, but rather a slightly softer grey. Here is an image that @johnymyko used in a post in another thread here that really gives a good example of what I'm talking about. It's also worth reading their explanation of this process of how the white text against a black background affects our eyes.

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To the people who never used the light theme all this time, (yes there were people who did) I'm sorry if you think we're silly or need to stop complaining and just accept the one true dark theme, but at least a portion of us have an actual reason we never took to the dark theme. I tried several times in the past 7 years I've been apart of this site and the forums. It's perplexing this wasn't taken into account, but I won't sit here and say I know what the process behind the scenes making a site even begins to be. I fully respect the effort the designers have put forth and after watching the video where two of them and jeff walk us through their vision I've even come around on other parts of the site. I like what they have going from a usability position. That said, this is something I can't get past. If I use the forums or read the wiki here now it will have to be in much smaller spurts (if at all). Please take this issue into account for those of us who find this new inverted text (white on black background) painful and inaccessible. We're not exactly demanding for a white theme, but a change to the shade of the text color. Again, the comments section is already in a much better position in this regard. For those who haven't noticed, go take a look at the comments on a random video and then head back here. If we're talking one sentence it may not be immediately noticeable, but when comparing it to huge paragraphs of text (you know the kind that would be prevalent in a wiki or on a forum) it's a huge difference in accessibility.

We had an answer to this all this time in the light theme, so it's never been a problem to voice concern over, but now that it's been taken away it's a problem. If the site was only video it may not even be that big a deal, but since 2/3 of the site is text based (wiki and forum) it needs to be addressed.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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#3  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

@johnymyko: Thanks so much for explaining that in a much better way than I could have. You mention that the white text blurs together too when reading it and that is something I failed to mention as well. There is an effect where the white text creates this kind of top to bottom stretching of light you get when seeing a blurry light off in the distance (if that makes sense). Which makes it even more uncomfortable to actually read the text, let alone the problems when I look away.

I really appreciate others backing the (seemingly) few of us up on this in between the #darksite4lfye posts. I don't have a problem with a certain vision for the aesthetic here (and it's not one I even hate on the surface), but when there's an actual accessibility issue for people on significant parts of the site (the forums and wiki) it's hard to just be quiet and accept things the way they are. Like, we're not just being curmudgeonly and not liking change. It's a problem that will make me use the site less. I would also say to those who say they have to put up and deal with white background on black text, I'm sorry you have to deal with that but in this case we had an option all this time to remedy this problem and now it's been taken away. I've been using this site with the light theme for 7 years now, so there's not really been a reason to voice concern over this problem until now.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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@nodima: @ares42: I get the dark background thing. It is less of a strain than a bright version. The problem (for me at least) is the white text here. Black text never gave me problems with my eyes. Think of it like this. The white text is basically a more laser focused version of the white background. The blinding light of the light theme some of ya'll talk about is painfully present in the large blocks of text here. I have lines of this focused light burned in my eyes when I look away (which hurts my eyes and head after a bit), with a large white page my eyes just adjust to the light. They can't adjust to small little shapes and figures blasting into my eyes.

Seriously, the answer here (again for me) is to make the forums like the comments are now. The slightly grey hue to the text takes away this problem completely. I use the dark theme in discord all the time because it's not neon white text, but rather a slightly softer grey.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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So, I was just watching the site redesign video and looked down at the comments for the first time since the new site launch. They are so much more readable than the forums here. The text isn't neon white and the background is grey instead of black. This is what makes discord's dark theme accessible for me as it doesn't feel like an assault to the eyes.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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@efesell: I mean, have you ever read on a kindle/e-reader, or wikipedia, (insert any news site) or any of the numerous other parts of the internet that does this? Black text on a white background isn't exactly a new thing.

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#7  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

This is now the 4th thread I've mentioned this in, but yes please make a light theme available again. White text on black hurts my eyes. Heck, even just make the black boxes the text is in currently grey and it's already waaaaay better.

I never used the dark theme all this time (7 years on this site and the forums) and it's frankly really weird to force it on us after it's been an option all this time. This basically means I won't be able to browse my favorite internet forums as much anymore. The rest of the site is fine if I'm just browsing videos and watching content. It's just this harsh contrast between the text. I feel like I can adjust to the rest of the new changes, but this theme thing is one part where I have to stick my feet in the ground.

That inverted pic above is so much easier to look at.

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TheManWithNoPlan

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#8  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

Glad to see there are other light themers out there. I've already mentioned it in other feedback threads, so I don't want to sound like a broken record. Basically, the white text in black boxes is harsh on the eyes. (a lighter shade of grey would be much better. Basically what it looks like when you're editing a post.)

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TheManWithNoPlan

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