LiquidPrince

I've used PSN across 2 countries and 3 different states and am consistently getting max download speeds, so I guess I should consider myself lucky? Also the PS4 and Switch UI's aren't THAT bad. The Xbox one makes me want to cry though... Also FFXIII RUUUUUUUUUUULES.

I love how you're trying to act like how everything I write is some how venomous. You can twist and turn my comments as much as you like, but clearly I don't agree with Abby's criticism of how the game treats women. Therefore I made a thread. My thoughts were never hidden. Abby made the comments, I disagreed with her and wanted to express why. Her opinion isn't anymore valid then mine and it has nothing to do with it being Abby who made them. This thread would be here if anyone on the staff had made these comments.

And you know why your argument is weak? Because you're resorting to the tried and true method of calling anyone who doesn't agree with your sentiment a misogynist or whatever other degrading bullshit is relevant per the discussion. I'm not a misogynist because I disagree with Abby. And you trying to dismiss my comments by using that claim is frankly disgusting. If that's all you're gonna bring to this discussion, then you might as well stop, because I won't respond to your toxic nonsense that is gonna derail this thread.

I'm not really quite so sure why some people are fixated on the thread title as though it's hyper aggressive. Clearly from my point of view, certain people did misunderstand the story. Certainly the person who originally motivated me to start the thread whose comments regarding her stance boiled down to "I don't give a fuck enough to explain my thoughts" in the podcast are among the ones that may not have fully given the story the chance to prove to them how they might be wrong.

Regardless of that though I made this thread to be a discussion. Many people in this thread have given a more nuanced explanation of why they feel the game doesn't treat women right, and while I don't necessarily agree with all of it, I still find it valuable.

Anyways, if the thread title is coming of as so aggressive, I can always edit it, since that wasn't the intention.

Whatever you say bud. I have no intention of arguing with you about what my thread title meant.

I mean this a valid argument to make when talking about Red Dead specifically since the atmosphere of the game allows it to have the slower moseying pace. But the game in terms of responsiveness is not vastly different from how GTAV felt and so what do you say in that instance when you aren't controlling a slow poke cowboy?

There are honestly plenty of games that have lots of nuanced bespoke animations and yet still control in a lot more of a snappy way. Or at least have a control layout that has more consistent mapping. There is like 3 different buttons if not more to pick up items, 3 or more different buttons mapped to interacting etc...

Maybe the nuances of language escape you, but telling people that I think they misunderstood something isn't the same as me telling everyone they're wrong. I made a claim, supported with what I thought was reasonable evidence and then left it open for discussion. I didn't name the thread, "You're all idiots and obviously don't understand how God of Wars treatment of women."

It's a thread meant for open discussion and I've tried to be reasonable with every person I've responded too and never dismissed what they were saying. Me disagreeing isn't the same as me claiming everyone is wrong.

I don't recall ever telling people whether or not they did or did not have fun, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. You feel the controls are the best you've ever played and that's great for you. But the biggest point of contention about RDR2 outside of the split between how the open world and linear story missions are handled, are the controls.

@simmant: I've never once said that anyone is incorrect in feeling however they do. But I have shared my opinions on things they've pointed out as weaknesses and how I didn't see them as such. It's kind of the whole premise of the thread... wouldn't be much of a debate or back and forth if I just agreed or backed down on my opinions as soon as someone said they didn't share them.

There were plenty of people, you included, who were just saying yeah I don't like how it was done, Faye wasn't a character and Freya's turn sucked and so on and so on. The whole point of this thread was to give a counter opinion respectfully and point out my reasons for thinking so.

For the record every argument you've posted in this thread, I've also felt is real hand wavey and weak. I never really dismissed anything about it though by just going, well like that's just your opinion man... like you have multiple times towards me.

I think if you objectively compare the control scheme of any Rockstar game to any contemporary game, you can't really argue that it isn't bad... or at least significantly poorer. Does the slower, dare I say sluggish controls serve a purpose? Sure. Can you get used to it? Yeah. Can you even learn to like it? Of course. That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of other open world games or games in general that are all about having animation heavy, fluid movement that still feel a lot more responsive and easier to control.

I say this as someone who has never finished a Rockstar game precisely for this reason. But I will probably finish Red Dead 2 and in fact am pretty close to doing so being mid chapter 5. The game has immersed me and I have gotten used to the controls and have no real issues with them. That doesn't really change the fact that almost every other open world game, including the Witcher control a hell of a lot more responsively with a button layout that makes a lot more sense.

The comparison to Dark Souls is less apt in my opinion then the comparison to Witcher. The thing about the Witcher was that CD Projekt Red listened to their fans and added in an alternate control scheme that made Geralt move and respond quicker. Rockstar will most likely never take this criticism to heart and change anything, even if it means adding in an alternate selectable control scheme.

@sethmode: I have absolute respect for anyone who has a differing opinion. A lot of other people seem to be a bit dismissive of my points though with a sort of, "Yeah well... that's just like your opinion man..." attitude. People who are set on believing that it treats its female characters poorly don't much seem to care and think differently.

Due to certain responses I've already admitted that Faye is not necessarily as fleshed out as she could be. But I reject the idea that she is just a Maguffin to set off Kratos and Atreus' journey. The game has plenty to say about her via the lore markers, through Mimir and even through Kratos and Atreus themselves. Even if sometimes it requires you to do a little bit of unpacking and isn't just explicitly stated.