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    Interrogation

    Concept »

    The act of obtaining information through questioning.

    Enhanced Interrogation - Does It Work and Is It Worth It?

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    KaosAngel

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    #51  Edited By KaosAngel
    @Aishan: Dude, we got the right guy.  Is one terrorist's wellbeing more important than the millions of women and children in NYC?
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    Aishan

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    #52  Edited By Aishan
    @KaosAngel: This is the point. You're making a dangerous assumption.

    You're assuming he's the right guy, and you're assuming he has the information you need. What happens if you're wrong? Oops, you've just needlessly subjected another human being to pain and anguish. Better luck next time? Keep torturin', we'll get the right guy eventually, right?
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    craigbo180

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    #53  Edited By craigbo180

    The best thing about this topic is you addressed the Giant Bomb forums as the nation.

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    KaosAngel

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    #54  Edited By KaosAngel
    @Aishan: Okay, the CIA and NSA have done extensive research on the guy.  They know he's the one.  110% positive.

    Is the life of one terrorist worth keeping unharmed in the risk of losing millions of Americans?
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    MikkaQ

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    #55  Edited By MikkaQ

    If you think simply "getting" Osama was the end-goal or culmination of all these years of war and strife... I xan't help you. Your idiocy has metastasized and is incurable.

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    npeterson08

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    #56  Edited By npeterson08

    This thread shouldn't exist. Torture is wrong; end of discussion. We shouldn't "discuss" the methods because we don't know the details. This isn't even a philosophical question whether few should be sacrificed to save the many - it's a sad attempt to justify revenge. We seriously need to get over this ridiculous fear and hatred of "terrorism."

    "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

    - Mahatma Gandhi
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    KaosAngel

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    #57  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means?
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    s7evn

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    #58  Edited By s7evn

    I don't think it's worthwhile at all. Put enough pain into someone to crack them and they'll tell you anything YOU WANT to hear.

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    npeterson08

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    #59  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    THE LIVES OF MANY WERE ALREADY TAKEN.

    How does violence justify violence? How do two wrongs solve a right?
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    KaosAngel

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    #60  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08: I'm talking about a new situation.  

    There's a dude who is caught and knows everything about a nuke going off in NYC, he's not talking.  Is his life worth so much that it's worth losing millions in NYC?
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    Aishan

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    #61  Edited By Aishan
    @KaosAngel: Right, so now you have a fairy-tale where you have intelligence so good you know with absolute, unquestioning certainty that you have the right guy and that he has all the information needed to stop this terrible thing, but the intelligence is also at the same time not good enough to provide any concrete details on said terrible thing.

    Does this not come across as ridiculous to you? In order to justify torture you have to weigh the scenario so much in your favour that it's simply unrealistic. Do you think this circumstance would ever come up in the real world? Or, as is far more likely, you'll have intelligence that is hazy, full of second-hand references or flat-out incorrect?

    You're resorting to such extreme examples in order to justify torture. Is this the only example you'll accept torture? Because here in the real world you can damn-well be sure that the US has been torturing people with far less concrete evidence than this fairy-tale you've concocted.
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    KaosAngel

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    #62  Edited By KaosAngel
    @Aishan: ...at the end though, playing devil's advocate here, if it saves lives...is it worth breaking a couple fingers, throwing water on their faces, or scaring them shitless?  Do the ends justify the means?
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    Aishan

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    #63  Edited By Aishan
    @KaosAngel: Simply put, no.
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    npeterson08

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    #64  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    Would you kill me to save a million people's lives?
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    KaosAngel

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    #65  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    Would you kill me to save a million people's lives? "
    Fuck yeah.  If your death saves millions, I'm all for it.  I expect everyone else to do the same to me if my life came to that situation.  Those 1 million people are going to bring the future, some of them will be kids, doctors, etc.
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    npeterson08

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    #66  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    Would you kill me to save a million people's lives? "
    Fuck yeah.  If your death saves millions, I'm all for it.  I expect everyone else to do the same to me if my life came to that situation.  Those 1 million people are going to bring the future, some of them will be kids, doctors, etc. "
    Would you kill me if I had already taken a million people's lives?
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    KaosAngel

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    #67  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    Would you kill me to save a million people's lives? "
    Fuck yeah.  If your death saves millions, I'm all for it.  I expect everyone else to do the same to me if my life came to that situation.  Those 1 million people are going to bring the future, some of them will be kids, doctors, etc. "
    Would you kill me if I had already taken a million people's lives? "
    Depends, I find you on friendly soil or somewhere the courts can't arrest me?
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    august

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    #68  Edited By august

    The thing about torturing people is they will make up whatever the hell they think you want to hear to make you stop.

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    npeterson08

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    #69  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08: But it is a question.  It's always been an issue, is the life of a few...more important than the life of the many?  Do the ends justify the means? "
    Would you kill me to save a million people's lives? "
    Fuck yeah.  If your death saves millions, I'm all for it.  I expect everyone else to do the same to me if my life came to that situation.  Those 1 million people are going to bring the future, some of them will be kids, doctors, etc. "
    Would you kill me if I had already taken a million people's lives? "
    Depends, I find you on friendly soil or somewhere the courts can't arrest me? "
    Does that make a difference?
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    KaosAngel

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    #70  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08 said:
    "Does that make a difference? "
    Sure it does.  If I can get away with killing a guy who is responsible for murdering millions of innocents, I would.  If I couldn't, well I'd put them on trial...and he'd be killed by death sentence anyway.
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    ProfessorEss

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    #71  Edited By ProfessorEss
    @KaosAngel said:
    Fuck yeah.  If your death saves millions, I'm all for it.  I expect everyone else to do the same to me if my life came to that situation.
    We can only hope that some day the situation arises.  :P
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    npeterson08

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    #72  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @npeterson08 said:
    "Does that make a difference? "
    Sure it does.  If I can get away with killing a guy who is responsible for murdering millions of innocents, I would.  If I couldn't, well I'd put them on trial...and he'd be killed by death sentence anyway. "
    Isn't a fair trial the American thing to do?
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    KaosAngel

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    #73  Edited By KaosAngel
    @npeterson08 said:

    "Isn't a fair trial the American thing to do? "

    Sure it is...but at the end of the day, where you find him it can change anyone's mind.  He's going to die anyway, right?
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    Dylabaloo

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    #74  Edited By Dylabaloo

    If we lose track of our morality as human being then we are no better than savages out in the wild! I'm kind of shocked and disapointed to see some peoples reactions to this whole debacle.

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    npeterson08

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    #75  Edited By npeterson08
    @KaosAngel said:

    "Sure it is...but at the end of the day, where you find him it can change anyone's mind. He's going to die anyway, right? "

    It wouldn't change my mind. He's only going to die if you decide to kill him. What's the right thing to do?

    I'd say this goes for torture also; what is stopping the person you're torturing from seeking revenge? What's stopping that person's native country from seeking revenge? Who knows, they could even declare war on your country! Hate only breeds hate; there's always an alternate.
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    npeterson08

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    #76  Edited By npeterson08
    @Dylabaloo said:
    " If we lose track of our morality as human being then we are no better than savages out in the wild! I'm kind of shocked and disapointed to see some peoples reactions to this whole debacle. "
    Agreed.
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    sweep

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    #77  Edited By sweep  Moderator

    In the context of videogames this whole topic becomes much more interesting. 

    In the name of preventing virtual terrorism, the games we play allow us to dispatch hordes of faceless enemies and generic goons without a care for their families. We participate in gruesome quick-time-events and skill-shots, performing violence that is often flagrant and even pornographic, as a form of entertainment no less. I love the inner-conflict, that it's considered uncivilised or immoral to practice torture in the real world and yet at the same time we sub-consciously enjoy these same actions on a much more personal level when playing videogames. Is that merely a sub-concious enjoyment of breaking social rules, a hidden release of primal aggression, or an opportunity to exercise our true inner demons and see how far we can push ourselves and our very humanity in a blameless environment? The psychology behind that discussion is potentially fascinating!

    However that's not what we are talking about here, is it?

    We are actually having a discussion about whether torture is justified. This is a pretty macabre subject and you are yet to demonstrate the ability to discuss it with the maturity it consequently deserves. For that reason, this thread is being locked. 
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