Nation,
We killed Osama Bin Laden, we did it. I'll be the first to admit it, we did it. We also did it using "enhanced interrogation", and over the many years...it worked. All of it was built up for this one focal moment.
Snapping fingers off, water-boarding, cutting fingertips off, abusing loved ones in front of the terrorists, etc...it worked at the end of the day. So for all those who say it would never work and it was just torture...what say you now?
Did the ten years of post-911 enhanced interrogation have proven to work at the end of the day...or didn't they?
Interrogation
Concept »
The act of obtaining information through questioning.
Enhanced Interrogation - Does It Work and Is It Worth It?
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I'm not sure the 'advanced interrogation' had a whole lot to do with it. The story I read in the paper said that they got more information out of people from standard interrogation than they ever did water-boarding guys.
I'd strongly suggest watching the movie "Unthinkable" which covers exactly the issue you mentioned: how far should we go to protect others (in this case American citiziens). It also criticizes the hypocrisy of the Americans regarding the issue of personal rights vs national security.
Seeing "OBL" as an abbreviation for Osama Bin Laden is weird to me because I've never been somewhere where he was discussed often enough to warrant an acronym.
" @bonorbitz said:I saw the George Bush avatar as I was reading the initial post and was trying to figure out what angle this was coming from..." How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL? "We don't. Kaos is just being obtuse and sensationalistic because that's what he does. Cause he's an ass. "
" @Slaker117 said:Funny, I saw the Bush avatar and threw up in my mouth." @bonorbitz said:I saw the George Bush avatar as I was reading the initial post and was trying to figure out what angle this was coming from... "" How do we know exactly what tactics were used, how often they were used, who they were used upon, and how successful they were in tracking down OBL? "We don't. Kaos is just being obtuse and sensationalistic because that's what he does. Cause he's an ass. "
When time is of the essence and lives depend on it, I'd say torture is the best way to get information from non-compliant individuals.
" I agree with what someone said earlier. If we're talking war situations, terrorism, yes, it's worth it. If we're talking standard criminal issues, definitely not. "What makes it more acceptable in war? Why is it acceptable ever?
" @FlyingRat: I never said that, I'm asking what people think about these techniques after knowing they apparently worked in catching OBL. "This is a complete logical fallacy.
As for torture when it comes to the OBL situation... I can't say with any certainty whether it helped with finding him or not. I haven't heard/read the news on that yet and haven't formed any opinions on that. My opinions on torture have absolutely nothing to do with the OBL situation. I simply consider myself a realist. And it's unrealistic to be idealistic and think we can all fucking sing kumbaya and maybe the bad guys won't hurt innocent people. I do not believe in Utopia, sorry.
This whole situation is really bringing out the worst in people. Osama Bin Laden is dead and gone forever. Let's stop trying to throw ethics out the window in the name of safety and freedom, okay?
I was just watching the news and they said enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with it. Even Donald Rumsfield said it didn't have a part in. If that guy says something like that considering the circumstances I feel I have to believe it. But who knows it seems a bunch of outlets are saying different stuff.
From what I read, the key information regarding Osama's whereabouts was obtained through normal interrogation. Personally, I think "enhanced" interrogation should be outlawed, whether or not it works. Otherwise, we are no better than the terrorists we are fighting.
" I was just watching the news and they said enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with it. Even Donalds Rumsfield said it didn't have a part in. If that guy says something like that considering the circumstances I feel I have to believe it. But who knows it seems a bunch of outlets are saying different stuff. "I'd say that Fox News had something to do with any bullshit regarding "enhanced interrogation" having something to do with it... The news sources I've been following haven't said anything to close to that.
" @melcene: You say it's ok to do so because it leads to information that might be useful, however you don't take into consideration that the fact that it was obtained through torture makes it tainted. If you've being abused mentally or physically beaten for days at a time, you'll eventually tell your interrogators something, anything, just to make it stop. That does not make that information true."
I dunno... If the Salem Witch Trials taught me anything, it's that witches are more common than we think. ;)
There is a difference between waterboarding (which was only done to three people) and enhanced interrogation, which used stress positions, etc. And it does look like some information that came from Khalid Sheik Mohammed (one of the three who was waterboarded) did aid in finding OBL. But we still don't know for sure (and probably won't for a very long time). I don't see a problem with enhanced interrogation, and from what I've heard from people who know at the Pentagon, their techniques work surprisingly well. They say the same for waterboarding, although the same guys always told me that anything worse than waterboarding would probably cease producing any decent intelligence. KSM gave quite a bit of decent intel. But even those in charge of interrogation knew they couldn't use that on just anyone.
So, does enhanced interrogation work? It seems to. Is it worth it? Probably only in situations where we know that the subject knows things we need to know. Did it have much to do with capturing OBL? Reports seem to indicate that it did have at least a minor role, but all the details will likely stay classified for a very long time. Is it good that OBL is dead? Undoubtedly. Will it make a huge difference now, ten years after 9/11? I doubt it.
" The guy on my icon killed Osama Bin Fawdin. "The image of ! this popping up above Osama's head followed by that messed up sound when those seals busted into that room brought a smile to my face.
" @KaosAngel said:The CIA and NSA caught him through his emails and cellphone conversations. They know it's going to happen but not the details." @Pibo47: Let's say this, a guy we kidnap knows about a nuke going off in NYC, and it goes off in a matter of hours. He's not talking...are those millions of people in NYC fucked? He wins? "How do you know he knows? "
" @Aishan said:How do you know you have the right guy?" @KaosAngel said:The CIA and NSA caught him through his emails and cellphone conversations. They know it's going to happen but not the details. "" @Pibo47: Let's say this, a guy we kidnap knows about a nuke going off in NYC, and it goes off in a matter of hours. He's not talking...are those millions of people in NYC fucked? He wins? "How do you know he knows? "
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