Game of Thrones - Season 8 - Game Over

My only real complaint last night was the death toll wasn’t very high for named characters.. Needed more named characters to die. Biggest battle in Westeros and no real deaths of substance, but I loved it still. I realized after last season and even a little before that, that things were going to change from a story perspective. They sortve painted themselves in a corner and there was no way to get out cleanly. I appreciate the show for what it is and was and I stop expecting these super intricate plot lines after season 5/6. If they followed the pace of the first few seasons, we’d be 15 seasons deep before we got to this point. Don't get me wrong, I was ok with that too, but ultimately, that’s not what we are getting. There are ppl who hated last weeks episode and also hated last nights and I kinda wonder why ppl are even watching it? Last night was fun, even if much tamer than we all thought. I think, within the confines of what they had left, it was pretty good. Battle of the Bastards was a better battle, but last night was still fun. It involved tension and fear and excitement. Things 90% if TV shows can’t do. I think the show runner have gotten a little complacent and burnt out and reserved in much of the aspects of what made the show so damn good the first 4 seasons, but they also don’t have the books to pull from anymore I guess it’s ultimately good they are done after this season. I’ve enjoyed the whole ride. I think there are more deaths coming and wouldn’t that be even more Game of Thrones-ians to have survived this fucking epic battle against 'Death' to then lose to an ultimately inferior enemy. Such a cruel dagger to the heart.

Contrarians bother me to no end (but this is the internet) Like you can have issues and stuff with the show and episodes, that is fine. Gives you stuff to talk about but to just vehemently talk about how much you hate it? Who cares. Good for you. What are you trying to accomplish by letting everyone know you hate something most everyone else loves? If you think yourself so much more sophisticated and smarter than everyone, go write and create your own fucking show.

TL;DR. The show is great.

As an extended episode of TV, that was great. Thrilling, dramatic, filled with pathos, mournful, hopeful, scary and hold-your-breath tense with some wonderful performances and brilliantly shot scenes.

As the conclusion to the main plot arc of a brilliant fantasy series?

Unsatisfying, lazy garbage.

But then, ever since season 5 the plot of the show hasn't mattered, or at least has just been functional. It's purely a character-driven drama at this point, so I wasn't expecting anything in that regard. This episode felt like them just cutting loose the actual fantasy plot that the series is built around as neatly as they could. If you were into Game of Thrones for the fantasy plot, this was an horrific conclusion that just dumped dozens of hours of storytelling down the toilet. But if you like it because you like the characters and the world and seeing what they all do, then great, on to the real stuff next week!

Looking forward to it honestly.

@nutter: I didn't really have as much of a problem with darkness rather than blurryness. Any scene involving the storm was just a mess which was like half the episode. It probably didn't help that the episode itself was pretty messy as well. The introduction to the battle was on the right track, but then due to having way too many "important" characters involved it became a mess of "hey, look at this guy fighting". It was just jumping around all over the place without really showing where things are happening or what's going on.

@gerrid Shouldn't we be taking the reality that the Night King was a single episode threat to suggest that his arc isn't the conclusion or even remotely the main plot of this fantasy series? I actually think it all felt kind of fitting that after all the intrigue and drama of previous seasons we built up to this inevitable magical battle that was all basically Bran putting pieces in place to buy enough time to do (whatever he was doing while Warging) plus killing of the Night King. Like one of the principle complaints I see about the "new direction" of the show is that all the characters have plot armor and stupid decisions don't have consequences.

But the vibe to me has always been that the plot armor is coming from magical sources. Bran, Melisandra/Lord of Light, Dragons. All the stuff that make these characters seem like "heroes" for me felt like they were only heroes in the moment. Heroes for this battle because they were needed as such. With the Night King handled and still plenty of episodes left, I have a feeling that plot armor is going to get thrown right out the window. Especially considering how pivotal Bran was to all of that, and Bran has said countless times to every important character 'I'm not Brandon Stark." Now that the real threat is over he's probably going to do his own thing and likely not care at all about who sits on the Iron Throne. Not unless there is more to the story than we've been shown/told.

@atastyslurpee: Haven't really seen that here, dunno if that's where you were aiming that but for my part I've enjoyed the shit out of the show throughout. My post before was focused mostly on the few negatives but I enjoy the vast majority of what the show does, just not everything. The story plotting/pacing has been all over the place for a while now imo but that's pretty much my only complaint, I still very much enjoy watching the show and I'm excited to see what happens next.

I did see some comments on other sites that were basically just bragging about not watching the show like that makes them more interesting somehow, if that's the sort of stuff you were referring to then sorry to jump the gun on this.

No, mostly just the internet as a whole. Its been good here. Jason Schrier and his friends on Twitter had some smarmy ass comments about how they hated it so much. Like he ( & others) get no enjoyment from the show and my question is why do those people still watch it? I stopped watching The Walking Dead after season 3 because i didn't find it interesting nor worth my time anymore... its not hard. I didn't tweet about it and I dont shit on ppl who still do. There is too much entertainment to waste your time watching something you dont enjoy.

The show is what it is now. Again, people can have issues, things they don't like. Thats natural. But to just flat out hate a show and to continue watching it, just so you can shit on how 'bad' you think it is, seems like a gigantic pretentious waste of time, but this is the internet after all.

@devise22 Problem is, I think it was the main plot of the series until the TV producers took over writing it, at which point it was just a dramatic distraction to the character play they created.

There is way too much lore and mystery and storytelling that was just dumped down a well with this plot ending. It's fine that it changed, it's just inconsistent and unsatisfying if you enjoyed any of the fantasy lore at all.

Edit:unless I've misunderstood and you're saying that the white walker storyline isn't over? in which case that would be fine but I would be very surprised.

I'm legit astounded that they ACTUALLY did that crypt bullshit. It seemed way too obvious.

I was hoping it would be Arya to kill the Night King. I'm just surprised they ACTUALLY did that. Thought for sure it would be Jon. I'm frankly shocked that they gave that honor to a female character.

The video compression was terrible.

The whole episode was good, though.

I have some criticisms about how the overall plot of GOT has gone ( I too lament the loss the intrigue from the early seasons) but considering where the show was at at the beginning of this season, this was probably the best way these events could've played out. Like I don't know what else people were expecting considering there are only three episodes left. They have to resolve the plot somehow. And maybe they resolved this arc a bit to cleanly for GOT standards but at least they managed to payoff seven seasons of storytelling for a few of characters in the process.

I am very excited to see what they do with last few episodes. There are still alot of character arc that need resolution and now that the existential threat is dealt with ... almost anything could happen.

I don't know what you mean by this or even if we have been watching the same show. Because the fantasy stuff- dragons, white walkers, zombies, magic -has always been on the fringes of the actual plot and has never mattered in the grand scheme of things. The character drama has always been the heart of the show. And if you were expecting the white walkers to factor into more of the ending then, you have clearly not been paying attention. George Martin and the show runners have repeatedly said that the show isn't going to end with some grand battle between good and evil. So what else were you expecting?

@atastyslurpee:

I’m with you. After every episode these last 2 seasons, which I generally have really enjoyed, I expect people in both my real life and on the internet to pick it apart. In general it’s not a big deal. It’s when people start arguing with you that you are “wrong” for enjoying something that makes me want to punch out of the discussion.

It's always been a character driven drama piece that just so happens to take place in a world that might have some elements of magic and at one stage had some dragons. The whole magic aspect is basically a sub plot and to be honest you could remove it and very little would be lost other than there being a reason for the Starks and Tygarians to unite beyond bringing down one Queen to crown another.

Its actually the exact opposite. Martin himself has said numerous times that he is way more interested in the political machinations that any of the fantasy zombie and dragon stuff. So far, damn near all of the "lore" regarding the white walkers that was shown in the show has been entirely the creation of the show writers. The books have given no indication that there even is like some supreme leader white walker or that there is any reason whatsoever for their actions in killing people other than that they exist to kill.

Pretty disappointed with last nights episode. I find it hard to believe this huge threat that has been looming for 8 seasons has finally arrived on WInterfell's doorstep and it was dealt with in one night with minimal major character casualties. I am really hoping there is more to the Three Eyed Raven's story and the plot with the Whitewalkers and Night King, because this has been a major letdown. It all seems a bit pointless if it just ends like this. Guess we'll see what they do with it (or not do with it) from here.

I really hated how they would show major characters getting absolutely swarmed and on the brink of death in at least a dozen different scenes only to cut away and come back with them fighting off a quarter of the wights we last saw attacking them. When you fake out and tease these things so often it lessens the stakes. With the way episode 2 went, I thought for sure we would lose 10-15 big characters, but it ended up being like 5 or something? We lost no Starks, no Lannisters, no Targaryens. We even saw wights rampant in the Crypts, but I guess we only lost just random no names again? It is truly incredible how nearly every named character was an inch from death at one point or another, but 95% end up surviving.

The past couple of seasons seem like I am watching any other TV show and not the one I fell in love with for being so different way back in the first handful of seasons. Maybe the show got too big and too popular for them to not give into fan service and classic TV tropes.

I do have some small amount of faith the writers have something big still up their sleeve, whether this involves the NK being resurrected or Bran being the real bad guy, but fuck it would suck to get my hopes up again.

I have a great many thoughts on this ep. It was definitely entertaining, but hugely flawed. I'm sad to see what kind of reactions it's brought about from long time fans and book readers.

Without going into every tactical error and plot blunder, I'll narrow things down to one problem.... Jon should have been the focus. Jon should have been shown leading his troops in smart formations, struggling and sweating with them. Darting here and there with the dragon and finally hounding the Night King and facing him. They had a history. This was their battle. Yes, writing yourself into a corner results in wonderful tension, but the relief needs to come from a place that feels organic. There was no reason to believe anyone other than Jon would be the one to end it.

I found a neat Mass Effect reference in the "Inside the Episode" video. It's at 38:00 when the the song Leaving Earth (Mass Effect) starts playing in the video.

@aegon: I re-watched some of the earlier battles in the series after writing my last post and what you're talking about is exactly how the former (much better) battles have been. They have been focused on one or maybe two characters, and they've been about them having a pivotal character moment. In some ways I thought the battle in this episode almost seemed focused on developing the Night King, but then it turned out there was no character there at all. I guess in the end it's supposed to be Aryas battle, but basically every scene with her in it felt misplaced and shoehorned in.

I can't believe we had all these great warriors and Valyrian steel swords and everything in one place against the White Walkers and we did not get to see even one duel. Not a single fight against a White Walker. What the actual fuck.

@jesus_phish: I don't know that the fantasy elements and the white walkers are a "sub plot". the subtitle of the show is "winter is coming". it opens with the zombies beyond the wall, and it is the sole impetus of many of the main characters for at least half the show's run. Jon, bran, Melisandre, the hound, berric, sam, tormund - plus dead characters including the entire nights watch, the reeds and the wildlings, none of whom care anything about kings landing or the iron throne.

and even if it was just a meaningless distraction subplot, that makes it even worse, and still doesnt excuse it being lazy storytelling.

like I said it's still a good programme that I enjoy, they just didn't create a good finish to the fantasy plot, that's all. it doesnt make the whole thing bad.

id also say it's not irredeemable. certainly they could pull out a bait and switch with bran or the children of the forest or whatever else. I don't think they will, but they could.

One thing that I'm gonna have a hard time with is any of these characters who survived dying in battle against Cersei's army now.

I get it--war is random and pointless and shit happens, but the dramatic tension and release in this episode is going to make any future death seem cheap and pointless in comparison. Especially if it's random or low-key, like, say, a random arrow killing Arya or something.

Mil Twitter is having a field day with the tactics employed. I'm certainly no expert on ancient warfare, but there was a LOT wrong with this one.

I guess you could argue that the way Arya killed the Night King was seemingly random and unexpected, which is certainly the case with many killings and deaths in this show.

@cupofdoom: perhaps I didn't explain myself well. I wasn't expecting the show to end with this fight, and it was obvious it would get resolved this episode. Martin has said he's interested in what happens after the good guys win, so it was always obvious we would not finish on the army of the dead being defeated and the credits rolling .

but I just found the way they resolved it to be lazy. it just didn't tell a good story, in the end.

it reminds me of when you're telling a kid a bed time story, and you look at the clock and realise its way past time for them to sleep...

"...and then Arya stark jumped out of the darkness and stabbed the night king in the back! and all the zombies died and the human race was safe forever more. goodnight!"

Apparently people are calling Arya a Mary Sue? What the shit?

Have they never seen the show before? She's basically been training in exponentially increasingly bad-ass ways since the beginning of the whole series.

As for the episode: enjoyed it, but disappointed the White Walkers were defeated. Hopefully there's more to things than that, but if not, hopefully things get real nuts, because there's 3 episodes left and the most exciting stuff for me is not dealt with.

@theht said:

I'm not sure anyone is actually calling Arya a Mary Sue (if they are it is an incredibly tiny percent of people). I saw that trending on twitter and spent a good 10min looking and didn't see a single tweet calling her a Mary Sue, just countless people defending her and being outraged that people would call her a Mary Sue. What strange times we live in.

Twitter is the weirdest shit. I basically saw the same. It's really bizarre when people with like 10 followers say something controversial and/or shitty, and the tweet becomes a WAY bigger deal than it needs to because 1 or more popular people weigh in on it. If you just ignore it, it will go away. Because yeah, I had to basically work to find any tweet calling her a Mary Sue but I could easily find a ton of people explaining why she isn't. Go figure.

Twitter being Twitter, of course, it seems impossible for someone to say they didn't love the *way* that Arya killed the Night King without being called anti-feminist or something. I'm sure some are in that camp, but I think someone just saying they didn't like the exact way that Arya appeared from nowhere, or how that entire slow walk scene broke down in general, is totally fair. But, as you say, what strange times we live in.

After reading all the drama over this, I watched it this afternoon in a moderately dark room and thought it was totally fine. Also on an LG OLED (which I think I've managed to calibrate fairly well).

Special bonus: this week finally convinced me to just unfollow several Twitter attention seekers who puke up their hot takes 15 mins after the episode ends.

@atastyslurpee: Good stuff. I was worried I might've come across as overly dismissive of the show on the whole when that wasn't my intention. I'm with you that folk that don't like something should probably find a more enjoyable way to spend their time rather than suffering and complaining.

It's always been the case that anything with mass appeal inevitably brings out people that wanna make a show of not liking the thing most people like. I wouldn't lambast someone for not liking something that I do but to make such a show of it rather than just moving on to something they do enjoy strikes me as a cringe inducing attempt at appearing different and interesting. It doesn't really upset me unless they're dismissive of those that do enjoy it but it's embarrassing to see.

If the internet were a movie, I feel that "like a gigantic pretentious waste of time" would be the perfect tagline.

The episode was . . . fine, I guess. I think the last couple of seasons of the show have suffered from the same problem the last couple of books have in that they have become "predictably unpredictable." The show runners have clearly read the press and decided that they need to "subvert audience expectations" at all costs, even when doing that is really at odds with how the tone of the story has operated before.

The best moments of the show (e.g. Ned Stark's beheading, The Red Wedding, Hardhome, etc,) work because they operate on a cold and brutal logic - when characters are in a bad situation, bad things happen. That's "subversive" only because television audiences are so conditioned to expect that the heroes are going to win the day or at least make some miraculous escape.

However, applied to this episode, I think the show runners faked themselves out a bit. They did the surprising thing when instead they actually needed to do more of the expected thing. While it isn't necessarily fatal storytelling to tie up the battle against the Night King in a nice neat bow, they really threw logic out the window to get there. Instead of a bad situation leading to bad things, we got a bad situation leading to . . . Deus Ex Arya. If they'd wanted to keep with the past tone of the show, then this battle either needed to be lost completely, or there needed to at least be a lot larger death toll than a few relatively minor characters.

Lovely episode in a lot of ways, but also some weird shots and bugs that really stood out. Despite the way the ending makes me think this isn't quite over, it's probably over because they likely don't have the budget for another one of these battles plus the unresolved matter with Cersei. Atmosphere is just super, super great. Many of the deaths could have been executed better.

Looking forward to next week.

@zomgfruitbunnies: I was kind of wondering if they would go with a smaller scale fight, like maybe Jaime or Tyrion is brought before Cersei, demands trial by combat, and the Hound takes on the Mountain, with the Hound somehow winning? It would be a way to get rid of Cersei without another budget breaking battle. I don't particularly like the idea, but I'm with you in that I just don't expect another HUGE battle scene this season, and when you incorporate that the Iron Island dudes are better at ship-to-ship stuff....I REALLY couldn't imagine a budget that incorporates any kind of water battle a la Blackwater.

It would appear that there are at least SOME good Twitter contributions out there, like this one:

https://twitter.com/RVincent95/status/1122691829642743808

@frytup: I deleted all my personal social media accounts three years ago (people going FUCKING INSANE over Trump/Clinton).

No regrets. Social media is a hive of negativity.

@sirpsychosexy: this pretty much sums up my feelings entirely. I wasn't hoping for more character deaths, but I do think the episode overused dramatic fake outs. By the third time it happens, it's pretty clear that none of the major characters are actually in any danger. This dissolves any sense of tension out of an episode that I otherwise thought was pretty effectively shot to convey the chaos of a major battle.

Plot wise I'm gonna wait and see how things shake out before solidifying an opinion. I'll definitely be pretty disappointed though if there's nothing more to the bran/night king story.

Although if cleganebowl happens I'll take back every negative thing I've ever said about this show.

Referencing Mass Effect 3 is VERY appropriate for the final season of Game of Thrones, it seems...

Maybe they'll release some DLC that lets you see what was happening in the battle and where characters and events utilize actual stakes and logic. And a big party on the Citadel.

@sethmode: Depending on how Jon and Aunt Dany work out, I could see the idea of Da North (and whatever is left of the Dothraki and Unsullied) realizing they can't win in a straight fight. So they have most of the battle as a purely CG "dragons roast boats while dodging ballistae" that is comparatively cheap. And The Named Characters "infiltrate king's landing and the citadel" (or whatever the castle is called) for a few smaller 1on1 fights. And there will inevitably be at least one set of beloved characters who come to blows over Jon Vs Dany.

Keeps the budget way down while still having an epic war to end all wars. Maybe a few cuts to Grey Worm continuing to fail to understand how a phalanx works, but nothing that requires too many extras or close up shots.

@gundato: Definitely good guesses all around. Although personally my money on the "post Cersei" world is that Jon pledges to keep his lineage a secret out of love for Dany...as long as Dany makes Sansa Queen of the North. That still leaves room for some squabbles I suppose, but considering how few actually know Jon's past, not enough to warrant a ton of screen time, which I think will leave us with some maybe solid 1.5 or more episodes of wrap up.

Who knows though, it feels crazy to me that there are only 3 episodes left. It still somehow feels like there are so many ends to tie.

I'm hoping Bran or someone sheds more light on the white walkers since they feel lame right now. They needed more depth than just "they're ice zombies who wanted to kill all humans". I don't see why it would take 3 episodes to beat Cersei when it only took 1 to beat the Night King. I'm guessing something else happens like feuding or a little civil war between Jon and Dany.

@wrighteous86: As someone who likes ME3 a lot, that game is better than this season so far. This season has been two setup episodes and one kinda lame battle episode. I say lame because it was too dark, their tactics were stupid as hell (the calvary charge was dumb and the flaming spikes should've been in front of them), too many fake out deaths, and the sword fighting wasn't that well choregraphed besides Arya at times. If they can't match or beat battle of the bastards then don't do a battle episode.

Not seeing any WW fight was lame as hell too. At least Brienne, Jamie, Jon, and Jorah should've fought some WWs since they have Valyrian swords. All those special swords in one spot and they just hack at zombies. I wish the books were done before they created this show, that would make the last few seasons way better.

Yeah, ME3 had some very satisfying conclusions, despite them being wrapped up too neatly. Thus far, the only truly good conclusion we've had is.. Brienne's knighting? Although the NK's death was pretty cool in the moment, looking back it's such an underwhelming conclusion to that story arc. I don't really agree with people downplaying the WW story as a background one. It has been central to the plot since episode 1, and this was a pretty bad way to wrap it up.

And yeah, streaming this episode via Amazon was terrible with the darkness and compression, and I've never had any issues before. They clearly intended for the episode to be dark, but with the addition of the blizzard (the enemy of any video stream) I don't think the creators realized how poorly it would translate to the medium that most people would watch the episode, which was streaming.

Aside from a significant amount of plot armor, I think the show is still really strong. I find it weird that the people who claim to like the political intrigue of the first seasons better than the current seasons are the same people who are annoyed that the least political aspect of the show (the White Walkers) was dealt with so quickly.

In fact, I think the fact that the White Walkers were capped off like that fits the show perfectly. Sure, they've been a part of the show since the first scene of the first episode, but their entire existence has been all but written off by the vast majority of characters in the show, and their actual, tangible impact on the world has been negligible. I wrote something along these lines already, but the biggest throughline of the show has been that people are petty, spiteful, hateful, quick to anger, and shortsighted to the point of fatality. Just about every death or tragic moment in the show has been a direct result of someone caring only about themselves; Ned, Robb, Jon, Tommen, Joffrey, Myrcella, Ellaria, Shae, Tywin, Stannis, and Littlefinger all died because either they or their rival failed to see beyond their own self-interest. Oberyn's death comes from him not being too blinded by his own desires to kill the Mountain, Hodor's death comes from Bran overstepping his bounds as the Three-Eyed Raven, and even Drogo's death comes from Daenerys being too proud of herself to consider that she might not have "saved" anyone. The story, and the history of Westeros, is driven by these moments where a character has the opportunity to rise above the pettiness of humanity, and fails to do so. Being righteous and moral is the dumbest thing to be; it killed Ned and Jon, and Jaime's one morally good act before his redemptive arc (killing the Mad King) earned him the nickname Kingslayer.

In season 7, one of the Maesters in the Citadel tells Sam about an event a while ago that everyone thought would be the apocalypse; it wasn't, and now people barely remember it happening (I think; the details escape me). It makes sense that the White Walkers would be another event like that; important at the time, to the people it happened to, but forgotten by the world at large in a generation. Magical beasts and armies of the dead don't make it into the history books; brutal assassinations and continent-spanning wars, however, are taught to highborn children. If Cersei wins because she chose to do nothing while the dead swarmed across the North, and Dany's army was decimated trying to fight them off, it will be the most thematically appropriate moment in the entire show.

Lastly, as a matter of practicality, I don't think it makes sense for the fight against the dead to last more than a night. Wars between people last for months, years, because armies need to sleep, and eat, and are killed; further, battle tactics don't involve a horde of soldiers charging across a moat of flaming spikes. These things are long and drawn-out because the life of a soldier has some value; when the soldiers are all dead, however, none of those aspects apply. The dead will keep charging and the living will keep dying until one side wins; there's no falling back and regrouping. It might feel anticlimactic, but I think it makes sense if you consider the entire "war" to be a single siege against Winterfell.

@acharlie1377: In fact, I think the fact that the White Walkers were capped off like that fits the show perfectly. Sure, they've been a part of the show since the first scene of the first episode, but their entire existence has been all but written off by the vast majority of characters in the show, and their actual, tangible impact on the world has been negligible.

Well, that was the whole point. These bunch of humans arguing over who gets to sit in an ugly metal chair couldn't see past their own self-interests to the real danger. That their mundane arguments were completely irrelevant because the walking personification of the Ice Age was coming and death was following. Winter Was Coming. But apparently the Long Night only lasts an afternoon and now we're back to a bunch of assholes arguing about a metal chair again.

@jonny_anonymous: Well, that was the whole point. These bunch of humans arguing over who gets to sit in an ugly metal chair couldn't see past their own self-interests to the real danger. That their mundane arguments were completely irrelevant because the walking personification of the Ice Age was coming and death was following. Winter Was Coming. But apparently the Long Night only lasts an afternoon and now we're back to a bunch of assholes arguing about a metal chair again.

The problem with using "Winter is Coming" as a slogan for the oncoming apocalypse is that it's been the Stark family words for hundreds of years. Dozens of winters have come and gone, to the point where most characters have seen a winter or two before this one. It's mentioned frequently that this winter will be long and brutal, but people who have lived a long time (like the Maesters in the Citadel) know that there's always a world-ending event right around the corner, and that those events never actually end the world. I think it's more thematic and appropriate that these events are overshadowed by the acts of men and women; winters come and go, but in the end people are the really dangerous creatures.

A lot of people in GoT kept insisting that if people couldn't get past their differences and band together to defeat the dead, that none of it would mean anything; at the same time, the overwhelming majority of people, including queens, warriors, and scholars, brushed it off as naiivete and panic. Why does it make more sense that all these more experienced, and arguably more intelligent people, be wrong, and a few young soldiers of the Night's Watch be the most shrewd people in the world?

I think the White Walkers are more akin to a natural disaster. Natural disasters ravage a small portion of the world, a lot of people die, and there's a lengthy recovery period, but the lives of everyone not directly affected by the disaster are generally unaffected. If the White Walkers ended up being such a big deal, and everyone in the Seven Kingdoms had to work together to survive, it would turn GoT into something like a disaster movie, like Geostorm or 2012; but that isn't what the show, or the books, are about. Wiping away the entire history of political machinations and backstabbing just to say "but what if there was something even worse?" doesn't make sense in the history of the world, and doesn't make sense thematically.

Not liking the vibe of things after Episode 4.

I don't know how I want this series to end, but I don't want it to be nothing but bad shit happening to good people. There is something I know I want though and it's about a 30 minute long segment of Cersei getting the worst possible drawn out, torturous death scene that has ever been put to media.

Also, ten bucks says Sansa tipped off Cersei to their fleet and dragons and thus the ambush. My guess is she nominated herself to Tyrion about being an alternative option to rule. In which case, I no longer like Sansa.

@seikenfreak: I’m relieved that we’re back to bad shit happening to fan favorites.

Last week’s episode was easily my least favorite of the entire series by a good measure. Technically magnificent, but soulless and devoid of real weight or consequence.

Tonight’s episode still suffered from being rushed through events in order to end the series (seriously, if you need more time to tell the story, I’m sure HBO would love the extra episodes), but aside from the frenzied pace, it felt truer to the series, again. Rushed, but its identity is here.

Seriously, this episode’s major events jet-set the world in such a way that this could have been a season just a few years ago...

Anyhow, happy to have some weight and consequence back.

lol 4 real. this is the first episode in awhile that feels like it had some thrones-ass shit happening. which is to say i feel conflicted about every character's motivations, and it's great.

Season 8 episode 4 spoilers:

I mostly liked this week's episode, but this season has a lack of Jon (he's talked about more than actually talks or is seen) and he was acting weird this episode at times... it's very strange to me that he didn't hug Ghost goodbye or pay him more attention. I got the feeling he'll never come back to Winterfell these last two episodes, or at least not see Sam again during that time, if ever. I feel bad for Dany and the dragon, but it doesn't really make sense that ships could surprise them when they're that high up in the air and the accuracy was a little silly due to their distance and speed; Euron is even more over the top than Ramsey.

They keep talking about how smart Tyrion is but his plans keep failing and he keeps trying to talk sense into Cersei, both of which make him look dumb. I also don't get why Cersei just didn't kill Dany and the others since they were close enough to shoot, it's not like Cersei plays by the rules... she blew up a church. After the credits the showrunners made it sound like Jamie was going back for romantic reasons, which makes no sense. I could see him trying to talk sense into Cersei so their baby doesn't die, but he better not try to get back with her.

I like Jon a lot while I'm kinda indifferent to Dany and he'd obviously be a better ruler, but I don't want to see her go evil or crazy. Pride and entitlement are her core problems to me, she's never been the type who doesn't care about (innocent) people. Sansa is right, but still, she's been so annoying this season.

@deathstriker It's probably best not to think too hard when it comes to Euron and his teleporting fleets. I agree overall it was a decent episode but them getting ambushed and fucked up by Euron AGAIN is a little stupid.

It's weird because broadly I like what's going on. Not that Cersei and Euron are the final boss and the white walkers are done, I hate that, but that people are finally at least expressing how entitled and stupid Daenerys can be sometimes. But it's coming all so fast and there's so many dumb things happening around the periphery that it's hard to care. Euron is a terrible character for all the same reasons Ramsay was, random and absurdly improbable acts of evil that come out of nowhere to crush the good guys and create tension.

Also for gods sake, Daenerys bringing up "your family killed my father/my family" constantly in a room full of northerners that remember exactly how monstrous her father was is just absurd. Doing it again with Gendry was just absurd. Even Jaime should have at least told her about how her dad tried to kill everyone in King's Landing, but nope. If people actually gave her those reality checks, and she ignored them, okay, but not having them at all just feels weird, it feels like there's no sense of cause and effect, action and reaction anymore. And it's why the setup for Daenerys' heel turn feels weird, despite it being something I think makes sense for her character (or at least would if handled better).

I can't believe they didn't have the budget for dog head scratches at least. You can tell the writers just don't care about that thing they set up so heavily in season 1 anymore, they just want the show to be done with. It's also awkward pretty much writing Sam and Tormund out in the same way. Hopefully Sam is still involved somehow, cause this ending for him is just so, so awkward otherwise.

Bronn's scene was also super awkward. Maybe he comes back again to save someone so he gets his castle? But honestly it just seems like they want him out of the way.

The final scene is really dumb. They just established a couple scenes ago that those crossbows can shoot really damn far, so Daenerys and her dragon standing a few hundred meters out from like 9 of them and Cersei not just instantly shooting them all is stupid. Again, it would be fine if they didn't JUST show how far and how accurately these things can shoot. It's also strange that the dragon dying, Daenerys' actual child, is not the final emotional beat in her turn towards being murder crazy, but Missandei. Who dies asking Daenerys to kill thousands of innocents. It's just so weird from every angle.

One thing I like is that finally, Sansa's actually doing something that makes sense for her, finally she's doing the kind of scheming that's she's always been set up to do, finally she's taking some initiative, again in a way that actually makes sense.

Yes, I agree with this sort of stuff. It felt like everything was suddenly going to shit for the sake of it. Didn't feel like there was any logic. People making bad decisions like it was a slasher movie. If Dany had lost her last dragon there.. well that's a shitty thing I can understand because you're an IDIOT for marching out there and standing like that. And why didn't Cersei take the shot? Everyone could've been wiped out. Tyrion comes forward so that spares the family member.

So yea.. not liking the direction it's going. It seems the true enemy is emotions, because even after all this time and all these crazy events, everyone immediately switches back into whiny, childish, spiteful bitch mode.

The White Walkers are not a natural disaster. They are a man-made Ice Age, an ecological and climate disaster that is being ignored because of some petty rich assholes who care more about how much power they can accumulate and nothing more. These people are 100% not more experienced or smarter, they are just selfish people who care more about blood and privilege. The Night's Watch and the Wildlings are the most shrewd because they literally live at ground zero where it's happening. The Night Knight has been on the go for 80,000 years and has wiped out half a continent, the White Walkers have wiped out the Giants, the Thenn, the Children of the Forest. They had to erect a giant magic wall just to contain him and now the writers tell me he couldn't even make it past the first city in the North? Thats bullshit.

How could I possibly care about two assholes arguing over which one gets to sit in an ugly metal chair thousands of miles away now? Will Dany sit on the throne? Will Cersie? Will Jon? Who cares? It's irrelevant! It's just the same cycle of good king\bad king and non-political politics that have come before.