Hogwarts Legacy and the Dilemma of Ethical Consumption

Curious to what percentage on a score it would be. To be clear I'm saying if you think someone whose stated beliefs sound so phobic and discriminatory as to make people suggest that the "Personal Beliefs" section of the wiki isn't something their children should see, how many ethics is it to seek happiness in something they made. There are many options so if 100% is the only good number then I guess all of the other numbers are equal choices and 0-99 are all the same and equally unworthy of discussion.

Don't Ask Questions, Just Consume Product and Then Get Excited for Next Product.

I'm a little troubled by some of the responses here.

While it is true that "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism", that shouldn't be used as a blanket statement to just make whatever purchasing decisions one wants, regardless of impact.

There is a direct through-line from the royalties of this game to JK Rowling's already absurd bank balance, and it's pretty safe to assume she will continue to use her platform (which exists solely due to the success of the Harry Potter series) to keep mega-phoning transphobic beliefs and misconceptions about the trans community. She is also doing this while trans women of color are being disproportionately targeted and murdered in the US... so yeah. There is active harm in continuing to support Rowling in any way.

Maybe I'm biased because I have trans friends, but you shouldn't need to have such close ties to see how Rowling's behavior is dehumanizing. If you just don't care enough, and want to play the game, fine, do so, but please don't wrap it up in a misused "Death of the Author", "separate art from the artist", or "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" argument.

@theoracleofgame: Exactly -- someone on the previous page literally wants to use"100% ethical" as a threshold to care about anything. Of course if you define the problem that way then everything you do is morally equivalent.

If an author makes demeaning comments to the effect of "people born in this group are born this way, and that's the way it is," and you are in that group, should you be expected to immerse yourself in their fictional fantasy world? That's the easy question. The hard question is, what do you do if you are not in that group?

It's pretty simple. If you (general You, not you specifically) feel that strongly against JK Rowling, you should definitely NOT buy the game. Don't buy it used to justify a wishy-washy stance. Don't pirate it with the same nonsense she gets no profit justification. Just don't buy it and move on.

My problem from checking around the internet is people berating others for being interested in it and calling them transphobes by proxy. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard and I happen to think ROwling sucks ass.

Individuals have their own lines that they draw. They are not bound by yours.

Also, I find being a party pooper about someone's enthusiam for the game is also messed up.

*steps down from soap box*

@norm9: I mean, its a mess

Let's say I gave a shit about Harry Potter (I was a cool kid and liked Harry Dresden... and that is a different, much smaller, shitstorm...). If I buy merchandise and help build the brand I am, to some degree, supporting a terf who engages in very hateful transphobic activity.

Now, I can get cranky and feel bad when people tell me that and point out that I am supporting transphobic behavior. I can bitch and moan that they aren't being nice to me.

Or I can acknowledge that I am making the world a worse place and decide how much that matters to me.

As folk are fond of saying: there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. And once you have a laugh it is up to you to decide if you go full nihilist, bitch that they are hurting your feelings by pointing this out, or decide to be aware of what you are and aren't doing and decide how much that matters to you.

Which is where a good understanding of ethics come into play. My own personal ethics drive me to try to even the scale to at least some degree with the goal of being a net good-ish in life. So if I have once again failed to find any reasonable food to eat during a layover at DFW I am going to eat chik fil a. I can get annoyed that people point out I am supporting some hateful ass execs or I can make a donation of an equal or greater value to an LGBTQ charity. If yours say "Fuck chikfila. I'mma be nice to the flight attendant and try to get two packets of pretzels" then kudos. And if yours say "Whatever, it is just some delicious perfectly salted waffle fries" then that is your choice. Some (yo) will disagree and others won't.

I think the problem that is abundantly clear, but not enough people ever want to talk about is that there's more often than not a zero sum view on pretty much everything in society these days, and so whenever people find themselves in a position that they love the work of someone they seemingly dislike or despise, it ends up looking like something out of a science fiction story (I think the first Mass Effect had a side mission on the citadel like this) where a machine runs into a decision that so contradictory to it's programming and it just explodes because it can't square away these two things that so contradictory to eachother.

I don't mean to compare people in this difficult situation with liking something and hating the creator as robots, so I hope nobody takes it that way. I just think humans are so complex that we can square away two things that would otherwise make a robot explode from the sheer thought of it.

I think with every case, it depends on the fan really. How important is the property or character to you? How bad and egregious is the artists views? I don't think there's any easy answers. I know people who still watch reruns of the Cosby show, and plenty of people still listen Michael Jackson's music, or R Kelly's as well. I think the idea of ethical consumption always comes from a good and honest place, but it's such a difficult thing to uphold whenever you realize how tied financially most of this stuff is to the specific artist. I've seen plenty of people try and somehow make it seem like there's a possibility that JK Rowling could somehow not see a single cent from this game. But, that just seems absurd to me. I think if you love the character and that universe, there's no shame in buying the things and still consuming it. Especially considering how rich she already is, for what that's worth.

This shit's been happening forever, I'm certain. And the more connected people are to these artists, with even more ways to peer into the hearts and minds of said artists...people are going to find more and more things they don't like about them. And it's even harder when you consider how important Harry Potter has been to people since they were kids, growing up into full adults....and then this shit goes down.

By the way, I have to say it's one of the most insane shit I've ever seen where you have the people who are adapting a work of fiction to so publicly and clearly trying to run as fast as humanely possible away from the creator of said work of fiction. Everytime, they fight tooth and nail (even if they LIE to people) about how the adaptation has the blessing and is authentic to the creator. And here we have the opposite approach. That shit is nuts to me.

Couldn't you just pick up a used copy and have all the profits go to that store instead of J.K? It's probably what I'll do if the game turns out fantastic.

So I’ve been banned for wading into these discussions in the past but I’ll go ahead and try to add an alternative point of view to this discussion:

1. I’m troubled that many on here simply assume that capitalism and ethics are at odds with one another. Starting a business that produces a good or service that is a net benefit to society I would argue is an inherently moral pursuit. Now granted in America we have a system that allows large corporations to exert significant pressure on government but that it is contradictory to the free market. The alternative is some degree of state theft which, while you might prefer to our current system, I don’t believe is inherently more ethical then the free and open exchange of goods and services.

2. What is inherently so appalling about J.K. Rowling’s stance on transsexuals? If she has dehumanized them or called for acts of violence against them that’s one thing but I just don’t understand why people with a more traditional world view are automatically scorned. I’m a Christian; it is explicit within my belief system that anyone not worshipping the trinitarian conception of God is committing the gravest of sins. Now while I don’t go around calling people blasphemers, according to my faith that’s what those of you whom don’t follow the teachings of Christ are; does that mean that the creative and innovate work of people like me should just be rejected outright because our world view doesn’t strictly comport with yours?

I’m in a weird spot because I was in the middle of reading Harry Potter while all of this stuff was going down. There was one, maybe two(?), instances of her transphobia. The latest one happened just as I finished Prisoner of Azkaban and just started Goblet of Fire. At this point, it just seems to be a thing with her.

So...I already bought the books, so she has my money. So it’s more of a keeping their works, and in turn them, in The Discourse. Not really sure how I feel about it. Part of me wants to not finish the series. Part of me wants to keep reading because I enjoy the stories, but say “Yo, fuck that shit” whenever she herself is brought up.

With the game that seems pretty removed? It’s an adaptation of a world, made by a team of, what, a couple hundred people? Not even from a “Well how involved is she?” perspective, there’s so many people who make games. From programming, to artists, to music (which seem to be taking a lot of cues from the movies)

Honestly I just wanna play a new avalanche game I dont have any moral dilemmas nor do I even care. Game looks fun. That's what I want is fun games, outside controversy and accusations etc mean nothing to me at the end of the day when playing a game.

@thej6m: She has shared bad research and misinformation that leads to fearmongering. Transgender is not a synonym for transsexual.

Had Jesus encountered a trans woman that the crowd (led by people like JKR) was berating, he would've shown love and washed her feet.

The way I see it, would pirating this game / buying it used keep a bit of money out of Rowling's pocket? Sure. Would that absolve the player of whatever guilt they would feel from supporting a J.K. Rowling product? Idk, I'm not you. But to me, the issue goes deeper than just who gets money and who doesn't.

Not to pass a personal judgement on you or anyone in this thread, but it's still a game directly tied to Rowling whether she sees a dime from it or not. She'll almost certainly see thousands from it, but she's rich she could care less (there's still something to be said about not giving your money to her, and especially about not contributing to sales figures for a game directly tied to her and her one legacy, but I digress). To me, at the end of the day whether I got it used (which might not be an option considering where physical media's at) or pirate it, I would still be contributing to a larger societal "buzz" about it, whether through talking about it online or simply by seeing for myself what it's like.

But even if we were to acknowledge that it's a video game for one of the (sadly) largest book franchises in history, and thus there will be an inevitable buzz about it regardless, which we will try our best to avoid contributing to, it's still ultimately a world based around Harry Potter, a book series written by J.K. Rowling brimming with every bias and bigoted idea she holds. Will the game still have goblins who conveniently only show up in the narrative to operate banks? Will it still have house elves who are "oh so happy" to be enslaved? Will it still have characters as skin deep and awfully named as Cho Chang? But more importantly, is it worth giving the game the time of day to see if it actually avoids all those plot points, or even goes a step further and tries to address how shitty they are? To me, not really. Not only because I highly doubt they would dare to take a stance against most of the things Rowling wrote, even if they threw in a quiet dialogue line about how trans people are valid or something similarly tepid and non-confrontational, but because I honestly think those things are so baked into every corner of Harry Potter's world that the only way to divorce yourself from them would be to just not make a Harry Potter video game.

Maybe others disagree with me, and sure, whatever. But I wish people would stop making tepid arguments and scenarios which would absolve them of guilt for buying the game, especially when every argument I've heard in favor of it just feels like an excuse rather than a genuine point. Yes, I feel bad for the people who got stuck working on a thing tied to such a shitty person, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy it so they can collect bonus checks they likely aren't going to given either way. Sure, it's good that you aren't directly lining Rowling's pocket, but at what point is that just a band-aid covering a refusal to critically examine anything about the world she wrote? Sure, you aren't personally transphobic solely for being interested in Harry Potter even after everything Rowling has done over the past several years, but also as a trans woman who myself once had a passing interest in those books, and has known a dozen trans women who all *loved* those books as kids, only to end up having no choice but to completely detach from them once the author started openly wanting us dead? Seeing people try and console themselves for still liking that world sure feels some sort of way.

If it was a game I was interested in and wanted, I would buy without a moments thought about any of the external politics. I wouldn't even think twice about it. But I have no interest in harry potter, and although the trailer looked quite cool, I will not buy this game. The next Witcher, or Elder Scrolls though? Yeah, buy, literally no matter what.

@bladeofcreation:

Thank you for clarifying the distinction between transgender and transsexual for me; my goal wasn’t to offend and I’ll make a more conscious effort to use the correct terminology.

The reason I brought up faith is because those of us with more traditional values more often approach ethics from a biblical (or another holy book) world view. And the sin of blasphemy is covered more than any other by a wide margin. My point is that there are literally billions of religious people walking this planet and damn near all of us believe that people who don’t worship our God and follow said God’s laws are living an unethical life. Now I would never support religious/traditionalists screaming at a gay couple walking down the street or calling a transgender person “it” but is it the ultimate goal of those of you whom don’t have a traditional world view to just completely disregard the art/inventions of those who do have such a world view?

@thej6m: Um, I'm failing to understand what your Christian faith has to do with the defensibility of JK Rowling's position re: the validity of trans identity and life. Her position, as she describes it, has no foundation whatsoever in religion--or "traditional" views, or whatever euphemism we want to use. It does, however, have a foundation in the same old rickety-ass fairy tales (but they'll attack your daughter in the girls bathroom, trans rights negate womens' rights, etc.) that fuels trans panic in my country, the US, as well. We've seen it all before.

@thej6m: You're the first person to bring up religion in this thread, so no, it definitely isn't that. In a previous post I brought up the example that I've found meaning in Ender's Game, despite finding the author's views reprehensible. Orson Scott Card's faith doesn't offend me; his bigoted, homophobic views do.

Rowling isn't even hiding behind a facade of faith to spout her bigotry.

I find it bizarre that religion has been brought up at all regarding this. As others have said, it's not a foundation of Rowling's perspective, but more so than that, many religious people (particularly Christians) can't decide if the book is pro-Christianity, pro-Satanism, pro-occult, or what.

There's nothing traditional or Christian that should lead people to fearmongering. Spreading narratives that people are transgender, because they can use it as this amazing loophole to get access to the 'other' bathroom and start doing a bunch of crimes there.

If that's the line of reasoning being employed, i wonder how they feel about the current situation where a gay person and a heterosexual person already pee in the same place. You might even end up peeing next to someone that has been convicted before. That hasn't been a significant 'problem' so why would it be any different with trans people? It all just comes across as irrational fear to me. If we gave into that fear of the unknown, we'd still have 'white folk-only' bathrooms. Why can't we try to treat others like we'd like to be treated ourselves? Why are trans people being depicted as savages looking for a convenient place to commit crimes? What happened to Jesus advocating to do as the good Samaritan and helping others even if they don't share your background?

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The two aren't really comparable, one is not supporting someone who's worldview actively seeks to hurt others and the other is not supporting someone based on them BEING the "other", which no two ways around it, is just bigotry.

@thej6m: Dude, as a Christian person myself, I'm kind of shocked you're even trying to make this argument.

Jesus didn't call on us to assert some kind of moral superiority over others or "punish the unfaithful." Rather, He called on us to show His kindness and compassion to those of us who do not share the same beliefs or way of life. Jesus frequently dined and spent time with a multitude of sinners. That didn't mean He agreed with their choices, but He showed them the love and respect they deserved regardless. I myself have several transgender friends and would never even dream of supporting someone who claimed they didn't have the right to exist, and they in turn respect my beliefs and don't try to change or condemn me. That's the way it should be.

To level with you a bit here, yes, for someone with a more 'traditional' worldview, it can be scary to see how quickly the world has moved in what some would see as the opposite direction. However, hatred and bigotry is never the correct response. Live your life as best you can and show Jesus' love to others, not His wrath. After all, wasn't Jesus himself ostracized by the Philistines BECAUSE He was different than others?

Separate the art from the artist

While I have no real connection with Harry Potter because I was too old for the books, I can emphasize what the fans are going through. Having someone whose works played such a big part of your childhood turning out to virulently hate trans women has to be devastating.

As far as this game goes I guess in terms of separating the art from the artist this is easier to live with knowing that it's only based on Rowling's work and probably part of some deal she already had with Warner Brothers before the whole mess started. As for something Rowling's has directly created like those Fantastic Beasts movies or her non Harry Potter novels those should be boycotted.

@franziskavkarma: You bring up an interesting point so please allow me to clarify my position.

As you've mentioned in your post, Harry Potter is a worldwide phenomenon and this game is going to make a truckload of money regardless of what any of us on this forum do or say. I'm sad to say I've actively contributed to that phenomenon. I own all 7 books, I've gone to Wizarding World of Harry Potter as recently as last year on vacation, and I've seen 3 of the films in theaters including the last one which shattered box office records. All of this was done before her views became public and there's nothing I can do about that money. It's already in her bank account.

However, as a large fan of old films/games/books, I've seen and enjoyed a lot of works with problematic content.

A couple of years ago, I booted up my laptop and watched Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom for the first time on a bus ride. It's probably the most flagrantly racist film I've ever seen, complete with cannibalistic brown people and a little Asian sidekick with a comically overdone accent. However, I still watched through it, enjoying the action and rolling my eyes/laughing in disbelief at how ridiculous the racism was. I found it fascinating as a cultural touchstone and as a signifier of how much they were able to get away with back then. The film quickly became the butt of the joke any time racism in film was mentioned among my friend circle.

Similarly, in this pandemic a friend of mine and I have started a book club. We made it through several books until I suggested we read Ender's Game, as I had a copy I had bought years ago lying around. My friend, who is much more clued into this stuff than I, absolutely HATED it for all the racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. I eventually decided that we should switch to something else because I had started the book club to help with her stress and anxiety during quarantine and the book was doing the opposite. However, I'll probably still finish it on my own at some point because while I detest Orson Scott Card's views on his fellow man, I find his writing style intruiging and I want to see where the story ends up, even if it ends in a way that offends my sensibilities. I'll never buy another Orson Scott Card book while the man is alive though.

All this is to illustrate that when I say I'll buy it used, I'm not doing it to make myself feel better or justify my purchase. I'm operating within the reality that myself and many others have a strong investment in this property and this game seems to be what we've been asking for for a decade now. My friends, even ones in the LGBTQIA+ community that know about her hateful views, are excited about this. They still post memes containing Harry Potter content and a good amount of them will probably be checking this out. Not to mention everyone who doesn't know or care about what she's done. This game, and by extension this franchise, is currently too big to really fail. To many, it's grown bigger than J.K. herself. There's not a thing I can do about that.

What I can do, and what I have been doing, is minimizing the benefits she recieves. Encouraging friends who show interest to buy it used, not talking about Harry Potter anymore so as not to perpetuate it further in the public consciousness, not supporting any more Harry Potter content that she benefits from, denouncing J.K. whenever it's brought up, etc.

However, at the end of the day, I do not believe that having problematic content or a hateful creator automatically deprives a work of any worth whatsoever. And knowing that about myself, as well as the fact that the game was not written by J.K. but rather other people entirely, I'm happy I can buy this game and enjoy the experience without helping J.K. in any way, shape or form. I'm not going to talk about this game while playing it, I'm not going to tell others to check it out, and every cent I pay will instead go to making sure my favorite game store, which coincidentally has fallen on hard times, remains open.

Everyone has their own lines in the sand to draw, and for me personally, I've done my due dilligence to make sure my purchase will not contribute to her hateful campaign and encourage others to do the same.

But, but, this looks like the first Harry Potter thing I could get into...😔😩

@norm9: That’s an extreme stance to equate used game purchasing as the same as piracy. My problem with the game is giving money to Rowling, that’s it. I love the world of Harry Potter and it was a big part of my childhood. I’m sure there are plenty of trans folks who could say the same. I also have no beef with the developers, who are working hard to make a cool game. As a text I want to experience it, I’m just not cool with supporting the further marginalization and harm of trans people. So I’ll happily buy the game used and give a middle finger to JK.

I liken it to Minecraft. I’m ok buying and playing it knowing that my money isn’t going to shitbag Notch.

Though I'm just skimming, I applaud the thoughtful discussion that's going on in this thread.

@navster15: not you, but ive read a lot of folks on the internet with extreme opinions about what should happen to JK Rowling as punishment (bordering on fanfiction) because of her rightfully shit ass opinions and thoughts, AND then just turn around and say they're buying the game used. I just find the extreme hatred followed by the simple solution of still buying the game used as a strange disconnect and jarring.

Eta- so based on the extreme emotional reactions, id expect for their own mental well being to just not touch the game at all instead of half measures like piracy or buying used.

Obviously people can and do what they want, but a part of me feels some of the outrage is performative (I really hate word). In the end, I never liked Harry Potter (love HP as a teaching tool and a first hit in a literary crackpipe) so me not buying the game is a nonstarter but it has been interesting seeing how people are "dealing" with this.

When this game comes out and there's a quick look, I expect every comment to be, "This game is great. I've spent 100 hours playing over the weekend already. Fuck JK Rowling!" Or some variation of apologizing for liking the game and then praising the game like its necessary to show that you're am ally and that JK Rowling sucks.

A quick bit on this point, one doesn't have to look very far into Harry Potter to see how Rowling's shit-ass worldviews have seeped into the final product. I don't personally condone separating the art from the artist entirely, because the art in question was created from a specific place with specific experiences behind it, and it seeps into the end product. Transphobia aside, Harry Potter features very questionable portrayals of, say, bankers who control the world's wealth, or literal actual slavery where the slaves are honestly just so stoked to be at someone's beck and call. These are small parts of the overall story but are integral to the world Rowling has created and calling that stuff out and actively rejecting its internalization is as much our responsibility as it is Rowling's to, you know, stop being a wretched human being.

These works will have had a huge impact on people's lives and it's okay to like them, it bears repeating, but it's very important to closely examine the work in question and see what it is actually saying about the world, either explicitly or implicitly.

What if the artist is using the money and fame gained via the art to cause actual harm to people?

Even though I'm fairly understanding of the actual act of doing so, "separate art from the artist" is a very frustrating "I don't need to deal with this" phrase.

I think it's more a don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Shoutouts to the devs and other people working on this game who I can only imagine are tied to much stricter morality clauses than Joanne and likely have no feelings on the matter.

As others have said, this is a personal decision. If the author makes you feel feel gross or angry, why in the world would you buy into their franchise? Seems like it would be in the back of your head at all times.

Regarding Lovecraft, I figure most people of that era were into some insane / racist theory or another, eugenics, etc. You don't really need to dig too deep in most cases... it was more or less commonplace. One can easily be talented and bigoted, and one changes more easily with the times than the other.

Morbid fascination.

Also, good stuff with the mod posting the anti-capitalist memes on a video game website. The literal "eh, I can't be bothered to think about this too much" answer to any situation involving trade and morality.

Boycott what you want, don't buy it if it makes you feel shitty. That's how capitalism and video game sales work. Vote with your dollars.

Doesn't it become criticism of the text at this point, though? I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't criticize text or subtext or whatever-text, but I don't think it's fair to a work to criticize something that isn't even suggested in the books (at least not to my memory, I haven't read all of them in over a decade).

I wrote all of that post on a phone at work and have since thought about it a lot more. This idea that you shouldn't participate in a work because its creator has ass-backwards ideals doesn't sit well with me. These books have a lot of value to a lot of people. They are woefully imperfect, certainly - you don't need to look any further than house-elves to realize the issues at play here - but those books are also loaded with complex characters and huge storylines that people have loved and returned to for decades at this point. Refusing to participate because JK Rowling said some shitty things doesn't negate that. It amplifies the seedier parts of the story, sure, but it doesn't negate what has become a modern classic. I would hate to see a world where we collectively shun any work as soon as the creator reveals themselves to be shitty. That solution is as basic and simple as "separate the art from the artist".

Instead, read it. Learn from it. Criticize it. Talk about it, the person and the work and what the franchise has become. Because refusing to participate doesn't hurt JK Rowling at all, but it does hurt productive discussion about what the works bring to the table when otherwise intelligent people who would have otherwise progressive things to say ignore it because of something as simple as "I don't want to give JK Rowling more money". Because if those sorts of people refuse to participate, and thus have nothing to say on the matter, then the people who don't care or who buy into JK Rowling's rants and who don't think about the depiction of house-elves eventually, subconsciously lean into agreeing with her. Because this kind of discussion, about any work of this scale and popularity, is far, far, farmore complex and impactful than whatever money one more purchase might have sent the creator's way.

I posted it kinda half seriously and half as a joke. I do hold a lot of generally anti-capitalist opinions and think that there is a large degree of truth to the "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism", but I certainly don't see that as some sort of defense for not spending your money in a considered and measured manner.

There are clearly varying degrees of what could be considered ethical or not ethical, so you can't just use that phrase as a cop out excuse to spend your money however because "meh, it's all unethical." If you interpreted it that way, then I do apologize because that wasn't my intent.

As I said in that same post, there are a lot of complexities to this situation beyond just the desire to not put money in the pocket of someone as awful as JK Rowling. People should consider all of the factors and make the decision for themselves.

I for one am disappointed to have not heard more yet about this traditional lifestyle alternative on offer to the easily distractable sinner on the go. Do I get to make my own mead? Do I have to commit to feeling guilty he's never coming back and it's my fault for being or can I just say I'm bummed? Will my powers of Piety and Prejudice toward the unfaithful be max level day one or do I need to train and learn how to operate the Fryer first? Sorry - "Friar".

I'm sorry to turn this into an AMA for @thej6m, I truly am but for someone whose local traditions include chasing after cheese you threw away, forgetting that throwing the devil in a well doesn't kill it and alcoholism, I guess I haven't heard enough from the pitch.

Death of the author only works if the author is actually dead (and the estate just chills the heck out). Rowling stands to make bank with this game. Her last two HP films didn't do so well, and the book re-releases aren't drawing eyeballs like other newer books for kids. A win here stand to reinvigorate the HP brand as viable beyond the original books and movies.

Every new sale of this game puts money in her pocket and boosts her brand of bigotry. Either you care or you don't.

@petesix0: You have a lot of really great posts but holy shit this one was on another level.

Using an anti-capitalist quote to justify buying a product is some next-level deflecting.

@north6: this is the most hilariously predictable reaction I've seen in these forums in some time.

Who will stand up for capitalism!? The misbegotten son of America!