This is my first ever Total War game. (I was always afraid of the series before)
WoooooooO!
Playing my first campaing on normal. Had some difficulties and my own ally cut me off from a city i need for a vicory condition. (and a good port access to boot)
Had some fights that would have been losses on autoresolve, but I managed to win with my smaller armies - BEST FEELING EVER
Pretty much traded away my daughter for an alliance hehehe :)
Sieged KYOTO with inferior forces, didn't dare a castle assault.
Assassinated their main general first :P
Forced the bastards to come out to fight like real men on teh field. Still kicked their arse. Lost 1 general tho.
Now Kyoto is mine! PIMPIN
But I will have to betray my biggest ally at some point for 1 province I need for victory :(
Total War: Shogun 2
Game » consists of 3 releases. Released May 26, 2011
Total War: Shogun 2 is the sequel to Shogun: Total War, the first game in the Total War series. Shogun 2 is an epic strategy game, combining real-time 3D battles with turn based city and economic management.
My First Total War experience.
I just picked up Medevil 2: Total War off steam and O_O dear god..so much stuff they dump on you all at once. It's like trying to play a poor mans civ without adequate instructions. Fun game tho. Was also my first total war. They should rename them to Total Bananas, or Total Confusion.
" I just picked up Medevil 2: Total War off steam and O_O dear god..so much stuff they dump on you all at once. It's like trying to play a poor mans civ without adequate instructions. Fun game tho. Was also my first total war. They should rename them to Total Bananas, or Total Confusion. "Civ and TW are totally different. They are both excellent for what they are aiming for.
The other thing, which if coming from RTS's to keep in mind is that units do not fight to the death. So while 200 peasants is a lot of men it will be runoff by 20 elite soldiers.
For the campaign its usually easier to start off as a non-catholic nation so you can ignore the pope in the beginning. You also tend to have smaller nations that you can conquer easier around you.
" All the total war games are a ton of fun, you should check out Empire at some point, Im really enjoying shogun 2 right now too. "I got Shogun 2 with the Steam bundle sale, so I will definately check out Medieval 2.
But I'm not too fond of the firearms and cannons warfare, is Empire good enought to overcome a certain dislike for that kind of warfare?
@keyhunter said:
" I like how in Shogun 2 they added a mechanic that makes everyone drop everything and declare war on you as soon as you get around 15 provinces. Things get buck nasty. "Wow I just found that out myself. That's kind of ridiculous :(
Had to reload a save, to at least get my economy up to speed and prep thearmy.
Seems kind of silly to have such a blatant trigger.
" I just picked up Medevil 2: Total War off steam and O_O dear god..so much stuff they dump on you all at once. It's like trying to play a poor mans civ without adequate instructions. Fun game tho. Was also my first total war. They should rename them to Total Bananas, or Total Confusion. "I was about to write exactly this. I've restarted the campaign twice already (and will probably do so again today), to try and figure out how the hell to make all the systems work.
I've played pretty much every TW game and I'm loving this one. I just wish the rest had the campaign co-op this one does, because so far it's been a blast (though there have been a few snags here and there, and Creative Assembly can be slow to patch).
" @Turambar: I mean, it's narrow, sure. It's the island of Japan. Most provinces have a special quality to them through a resource though (like lumber which will give you cheaper ships, or stone for cheaper buildings), so you tend to go after what you need, and what you need tends to change. I don't feel like it's all that predictable. The different clan you play as will lend itself to different styles of play, too -- some are better with katana samurai or with horsemen, etc. I've played pretty much every TW game and I'm loving this one. I just wish the rest had the campaign co-op this one does, because so far it's been a blast (though there have been a few snags here and there, and Creative Assembly can be slow to patch). "What I mean is, think of Medieval: Total War 2. France can go north to England, West towards the Iberian, or East towards either the Holy Roman Empire or the Italian Peninsula. Does Shogun 2 give you that kind of option in directions for expanding, or does the narrowness of the island restrict that? That and also is there still a rebel faction that everyone is permanently at war with or is it like Empires where every province is controlled by minor and major factions that all have political ties to each other from the first turn.
The rebels are still there, but in the beginning minor clans hold all the free provinces. Riots, province-less clans, etc will become rebels and can take land and sometimes you'll have a strong rebel clan, and yes everyone is at war with it. In the first turn, though, it's more like Empires.
Ah man, I have yet to pick this up but it'll definitely be mine by the summer time. The thing about the Total War games is that the campaigns especially are so time consuming in how many aspects the player has control over. Whether it's an empire on the large scale (military campaigns, logistics, economics, settlement management, etc.) or the battles waged on the ground level, the Total War series always presents uniquely addicting scenarios of conquest.
" @Mikemcn said:I hate how they all turn on you, I restarted my campaign as the Date so I could have my side of the island locked down when that happens, as the Hojo I was getting attacked from every side. At least with the Date I can keep my back to the sea and only have to defend 2-3 provinces when eveerything goes to hell." All the total war games are a ton of fun, you should check out Empire at some point, Im really enjoying shogun 2 right now too. "I got Shogun 2 with the Steam bundle sale, so I will definately check out Medieval 2.
But I'm not too fond of the firearms and cannons warfare, is Empire good enought to overcome a certain dislike for that kind of warfare?
@keyhunter said:" I like how in Shogun 2 they added a mechanic that makes everyone drop everything and declare war on you as soon as you get around 15 provinces. Things get buck nasty. "Wow I just found that out myself. That's kind of ridiculous :( Had to reload a save, to at least get my economy up to speed and prep thearmy. Seems kind of silly to have such a blatant trigger. "
And Empire might not overcome that dislike but Empire is on a much wider scale (Its taking over the world rather than just Japan) which makes it play differently, if you got it in the bundle than I'd give it a shot.
" @Tennmuerti said:Diplomacy and actually honoring your treaties seems pretty important. I failed to help my vassals and allies with their enemies so you get like a -700 towards them for dishonoring your agreements and they turn on you harder than the other clans. One ally stayed with me till damn near the end, and then when he realized I wasn't going to help him, rolled up on Kyoto and ended my game. Not sure Iga is the easiest clan to just expand with since they're in the very literal center of the map. Had I been Shimazu or something more secure I probably could have just done nothing but expand my territory without worrying about my flanks." @Mikemcn said:I hate how they all turn on you, I restarted my campaign as the Date so I could have my side of the island locked down when that happens, as the Hojo I was getting attacked from every side. At least with the Date I can keep my back to the sea and only have to defend 2-3 provinces when eveerything goes to hell. And Empire might not overcome that dislike but Empire is on a much wider scale (Its taking over the world rather than just Japan) which makes it play differently, if you got it in the bundle than I'd give it a shot. "" All the total war games are a ton of fun, you should check out Empire at some point, Im really enjoying shogun 2 right now too. "I got Shogun 2 with the Steam bundle sale, so I will definately check out Medieval 2.
But I'm not too fond of the firearms and cannons warfare, is Empire good enought to overcome a certain dislike for that kind of warfare?
@keyhunter said:" I like how in Shogun 2 they added a mechanic that makes everyone drop everything and declare war on you as soon as you get around 15 provinces. Things get buck nasty. "Wow I just found that out myself. That's kind of ridiculous :( Had to reload a save, to at least get my economy up to speed and prep thearmy. Seems kind of silly to have such a blatant trigger. "
One good thin that can be said about this is that it dafinetly keeps it from getting boring." @Mikemcn said:
" @Tennmuerti said:Diplomacy and actually honoring your treaties seems pretty important. I failed to help my vassals and allies with their enemies so you get like a -700 towards them for dishonoring your agreements and they turn on you harder than the other clans. One ally stayed with me till damn near the end, and then when he realized I wasn't going to help him, rolled up on Kyoto and ended my game. Not sure Iga is the easiest clan to just expand with since they're in the very literal center of the map. Had I been Shimazu or something more secure I probably could have just done nothing but expand my territory without worrying about my flanks. "" @Mikemcn said:I hate how they all turn on you, I restarted my campaign as the Date so I could have my side of the island locked down when that happens, as the Hojo I was getting attacked from every side. At least with the Date I can keep my back to the sea and only have to defend 2-3 provinces when eveerything goes to hell. And Empire might not overcome that dislike but Empire is on a much wider scale (Its taking over the world rather than just Japan) which makes it play differently, if you got it in the bundle than I'd give it a shot. "" All the total war games are a ton of fun, you should check out Empire at some point, Im really enjoying shogun 2 right now too. "I got Shogun 2 with the Steam bundle sale, so I will definately check out Medieval 2.
But I'm not too fond of the firearms and cannons warfare, is Empire good enought to overcome a certain dislike for that kind of warfare?
@keyhunter said:" I like how in Shogun 2 they added a mechanic that makes everyone drop everything and declare war on you as soon as you get around 15 provinces. Things get buck nasty. "Wow I just found that out myself. That's kind of ridiculous :( Had to reload a save, to at least get my economy up to speed and prep thearmy. Seems kind of silly to have such a blatant trigger. "
Most TBS games I've played you tend to hit a breaking point after which you start steamrolling everything and the challange as well as some of the enjoyment is lost. Recent example would be CIV5, if you can get head of the AI curve your armies can start massacaring everything.
My (still first) campaign feels like I'm on a sinking boat frantically trying to plug thousands of leaks. It's like an all out gangbang against me.
It's kind of frantic, which is surprisingfor a TBS game for me.
- even after reloading and not taking the 15th province they still attacked me on the same turn, might have to do with Shogunate status as well (i got it just 1 turn earlier)
- had 2 major allied clans on my side when shit hit he fan
- they got slaughtered :(
- but they bought me time :)
- had to develop a small fleet asap when everyone turned on me, thankfully you get a bigass ship for becomeing Shogun.
- most of my fleet is still actually just scavanged ships from the enemy. The seafaring faction was kind enough to provide their supperior ships. hehe
- probably have 5-8 ninjas rnning around trying to arsassinate generals and do dirt :)
- 2 of them are currently keeping an enemy army in lockdown, untill i get a 3rd army of my own going, sigh
- some fuckers managed to sneak by in a tiny ass fleet to my main island and offloaded a medium sized army, my peasant defences and fresh recruits got killed almost to a man, but thank god for morale
- one of my fleets found a 3k per turn trade route, followed that thing to the source and fubared 8! trading ships, instantly returned them to the same trade route :D
- made me realise you could stack trading sips on routes ...
- finally had to resort to making some captured provinces vassals, there are too many ways into my territory and vassals definately help guard some flanks, since main armies can't be everywhere at once
- research is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW, its taking so long to research anything, i got 100% total speed increase and it's still slow, then gain it might bethat turns are taking forever :(
- need to go to sleep...
- I am a Shogun and this shit is fucked up.
PS: any good ways to boost research?
4000 men each. I failed to upgrade my cities early on so thats messing me up alot, im constantly bankrupt since i have such poor income from the basic cities i have.
" @Tennmuerti The sinking boat analogy is easily the best way to describe it, its insanity, im constantly moving armies around to try and push back 8 different armies of 4000 men each. I failed to upgrade my cities early on so thats messing me up alot, im constantly bankrupt since i have such poor income from the basic cities i have. "I just picked this game up and I'm new to the TW series, although reviews are really making me want to sink my teeth into it, but this worries me. Are the easier difficulties also like this? I'd like some time to learn the TW formula before working about a sinking ship..
I jumped straight into Normal.
The difficulties are:
Easy
Normal
Hard
Very Hard
Legendary
So it should be smoother on Easy for the first time.
" @zityz: A few things to keep in mind: Combat is all based on a basic triangle: Spears beat horses, horses beat archers, archers beat spears. Now off of that everything else builds. Heavy melee can take down spears and do ok against horses. Heavy cavalry is meant for hitting unit flanks and decimating morale. The other thing, which if coming from RTS's to keep in mind is that units do not fight to the death. So while 200 peasants is a lot of men it will be runoff by 20 elite soldiers. For the campaign its usually easier to start off as a non-catholic nation so you can ignore the pope in the beginning. You also tend to have smaller nations that you can conquer easier around you. "It's not quite a basic triangle. I wouldn't include archers. They kill beat everything if they can maintain range but get destroyed by everything once they lose their range.
But cavalry are faster than them, making maintaining range very difficult. In a traditional sense, the reason why cavalry became so popular in war is because archers where an absolute pain in the ass." @endaround said:
" @zityz: A few things to keep in mind: Combat is all based on a basic triangle: Spears beat horses, horses beat archers, archers beat spears. Now off of that everything else builds. Heavy melee can take down spears and do ok against horses. Heavy cavalry is meant for hitting unit flanks and decimating morale. The other thing, which if coming from RTS's to keep in mind is that units do not fight to the death. So while 200 peasants is a lot of men it will be runoff by 20 elite soldiers. For the campaign its usually easier to start off as a non-catholic nation so you can ignore the pope in the beginning. You also tend to have smaller nations that you can conquer easier around you. "It's not quite a basic triangle. I wouldn't include archers. They kill beat everything if they can maintain range but get destroyed by everything once they lose their range. "
And: I WANT THIS SO BAD! I got hooked on this series with Shogun 1, played a good amount of Medieval 2 and tried my hand at Empire (which I could never get into properly)
This seems like a good return to form.
" @Mikemcn said:" @Tennmuerti The sinking boat analogy is easily the best way to describe it, its insanity, im constantly moving armies around to try and push back 8 different armies of 4000 men each. I failed to upgrade my cities early on so thats messing me up alot, im constantly bankrupt since i have such poor income from the basic cities i have. "I just picked this game up and I'm new to the TW series, although reviews are really making me want to sink my teeth into it, but this worries me. Are the easier difficulties also like this? I'd like some time to learn the TW formula before working about a sinking ship.. "
I would go for easy first if this is your first Total War game. I should've done that ><
On my first playthrough (normal) I chose the Date because A) As people have said, they're in a good position once the shit hits the fan and I'm not good at naval warfare; and B) I've always been a huge fan of Date Masamune back when I first played the first Kessen game for PS1. On that first playthrough I ended up spreading myself too thin economically so, even though I had three provinces in my possession and was on my way to a fourth, I was losing money quick; and I was losing a lot of money because I built a large army far too soon and it hurt me financially.
Now on my current playthrough I still chose to play on normal (This game won't beat me damn it!) and as the Date. I chose to slow down and get some construction done, but since the Date don't start off with anything worth trading with other provinces (NOTHING! We're acutally importing from our neighbor!) I had to be careful and not "overdraft" when I go to recruit soldiers. But now the Mogami (?) clan, which I thoroughly spanked with a rubber hose during my first playthrough, has become a huge thorn in my side and have sent several armies to try and destroy me (which I've decimated). Good news is I was able to build a sake den which allowed me to recruit a ninja to harrass them when ever they entered my territory (I've assasinated several of their generals and maybe even a lord).
I was thinking about starting over and capturing my neighbors castle before hand which has an iron mill that I can use to trade with other nations (and stop myself from importing from them), but that would just open me up to the other clans that lie beyond them (apparently their at war with some clan I can't see). That, plus the Mogami clan to my side would just spell disaster for me. Even now I'm trying to think of a way to make this work.
Damn it man, I am so bad at these kinds of games haha.
Still haven't touched multiplayer even though I joined the Giantbomb clan. I should totally do that since I don't have to worry about money in the Avatar battle...thing.
" @zityz said:I love the Total War series, but I have to admit they're pretty bad about easing new players into the games. The most annoying part about M2 that Empire fixed was having to physically send diplomats places to do diplomacy. If I may make a suggestion here, focus on building up your settlements to get a large cash flow going, and make sure your unit upkeep stays under control. I lost way too many times when I was new because I overspent on units. Also, if you play a Catholic faction, make sure to abuse the hell out of the free upkeep and cheap units a crusade can buy you, its a great way to take control of some excellent Middle Eastern trade routes." I just picked up Medevil 2: Total War off steam and O_O dear god..so much stuff they dump on you all at once. It's like trying to play a poor mans civ without adequate instructions. Fun game tho. Was also my first total war. They should rename them to Total Bananas, or Total Confusion. "I was about to write exactly this. I've restarted the campaign twice already (and will probably do so again today), to try and figure out how the hell to make all the systems work. "
I was thinking about starting over and capturing my neighbors castle before hand which has an iron mill that I can use to trade with other nations (and stop myself from importing from them), but that would just open me up to the other clans that lie beyond them (apparently their at war with some clan I can't see). That, plus the Mogami clan to my side would just spell disaster for me. Even now I'm trying to think of a way to make this work.
I'm not conversant with the details of the Date faction (I am currently playing Uesugi, and have played Takeda), but I can say that you're best bet for trading is to hold a trade port and send a trade vessel to one of the trade hubs (the little golden anchors on the edges of the map that you can dock trade ships into). The trade hubs are an oft-overlooked economic feature in the newer Empire games: you don't have to be a naval master, but you can profit immensely from the resources you acquire from them. For instance, the closest trade hub to the Date is actually a "superior iron" hub.
My second suggestion (to anyone about the post-Empire Total War games) is that they focus on perfecting their battlefield tactics. I have yet to win a campaign (I only play on "Hard") without numerous hard-won triumphs. I find this to be especially important in Shogun 2. In strict one-on-one terms your adversary is only going to have two large armies (at the most), and if you can crush one of them the other will fall back to defence - which gives you time to regroup and put them to the sword.
" @insane_shadowblade85 said:I was thinking about starting over and capturing my neighbors castle before hand which has an iron mill that I can use to trade with other nations (and stop myself from importing from them), but that would just open me up to the other clans that lie beyond them (apparently their at war with some clan I can't see). That, plus the Mogami clan to my side would just spell disaster for me. Even now I'm trying to think of a way to make this work.I'm not conversant with the details of the Date faction (I am currently playing Uesugi, and have played Takeda), but I can say that you're best bet for trading is to hold a trade port and send a trade vessel to one of the trade hubs (the little golden anchors on the edges of the map that you can dock trade ships into). The trade hubs are an oft-overlooked economic feature in the newer Empire games: you don't have to be a naval master, but you can profit immensely from the resources you acquire from them. For instance, the closest trade hub to the Date is actually a "superior iron" hub. My second suggestion (to anyone about the post-Empire Total War games) is that they focus on perfecting their battlefield tactics. I have yet to win a campaign (I only play on "Hard") without numerous hard-won triumphs. I find this to be especially important in Shogun 2. In strict one-on-one terms your adversary is only going to have two large armies (at the most), and if you can crush one of them the other will fall back to defence - which gives you time to regroup and put them to the sword. "
Huh. I never knew that...well, actually, I kind of remember something like that in the tutorial. These "golden anchors",do they show up on the map and are they literally shaped like anchors, or are they those glowings light pillar things? Oh, and thanks dude. I completely forgot about doing that.
These "golden anchors",do they show up on the map and are they literally shaped like anchors, or are they those glowings light pillar things? Oh, and thanks dude. I completely forgot about doing that. "
There are about four of them in Shogun 2 (three to the West, and one to the East). You will see them marked with simple anchors on the undiscovered parts of the map (the parts you haven't explored yet), and you will find the physical access for them is represented by an encircled golden anchor on the the coast of a small island (if you have selected a trade ship and you hover over the golden anchor, the cursor will change to indicate that you can "merge" your ship with the hub, and clicking it will establish the new trade route - this is all based on the assumption that no one else is in possession of it).
Additionally: I have noticed that the AI seems to develop all of their ports into military ports (which I believe makes them unusable for trade), so I would recommend only developing your ports into harbours (or Nanban ports if you don't mind a little Christianity). Additionally, the military ports can only be "downgraded" by destroying them, and subsequently "re-upgrading" them to harbours (a ridiculous flaw in the campaign system). Finally: it's worth mentioning that each port has a different resource (the first port to the west of the Date, for example, has "superior war horses"), and it would be prudent for you to maximize your control of as many of them as possible (since this will prevent other clans from using them, and thereby endow you with a monopolistic trade advantage). Oh, and I almost forgot: you can deploy multiple trade ships to a single hub, but the increased supply will diminish the value of the goods (for obvious reasons).
These are all tricks I learned from my halcyon days as the ruler of "The Empire on Which The Sun Never Sets" in Empire:Total War. Subjugating native peoples for capital gain and deploying large trade flotillas to the Indies became the definition of "aggressive expansion," and funded my intercontinental armies.
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