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    The Last of Us Part II

    Game » consists of 6 releases. Released Jun 19, 2020

    Ellie and Joel are back in The Last of Us Part II, which takes place five years after the events of the first game.

    An actor compares TLOU2 to Schindler's List. Twitter does NOT like it.

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    dsjwetrwete

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    #151  Edited By dsjwetrwete

    I watched someone play the first hours of TLoU2 and a specific scene was so bad and so terribly insulting narrative-wise that it turned me off from the rest of the game. I even looked up spoilers as to what happens afterward and (total game spoilers I guess, don't read unless you''ve completed TLoU2):

    Are Abby and her group idiots? No, of course not. They've plotted this act of revenge and have executed it over a period of years. They want Joel dead for what he did at the end of the previous game. Odds are they've done a lot of things and hurt at least some people on this treacherous path, this incessant compulsion to go fuck him up. It's not like they'd just looked up his location online, taken a plane, and knocked on his front door. They'd invested time; time that's established as at a premium in a fleeting, apocalyptic setting; time and effort that could've been spent doing other things that would've meant more (to someone else, at least) than cold-hearted revenge.

    So they finally find Joel, torture him, and kill him in a brutality that equals to what he did to the Fireflies back then. And... they leave Tommie and Ellie alive after they'd watched the whole thing. Tommy, a former Firefly and survivor, someone who'd possibly have tactical knowledge of the group, where their could be based, etc. and likely has some command over the settlement in which he and Ellie reside. And Ellie, someone who straight up tells Abby that she'd kill her (and her group) out of revenge to their faces. And remember that Tommy was already with Joel when Abby and her group "caught" them, so the decision to leave him alive in particular had to be deliberate.

    Armed with pistols, numbers, and a singular hatred so strong that they've followed through on it after years of care and consideration, hell even after Joel saved Abby from the clickers right before - and the latter wasn't enough to grant Joel a merciful death, he still needed to experience all of the agony he had been responsible for. Understandable and it paints Abby and her group as like I've said, singular in their wanting for his destruction.

    But they leave witnesses. Witnesses that have sworn to come back for them in bloodlust. Witnesses that could identify them by their clothing (why the group didn't hide their identities is just... ) and that could inform others (like their entire settlement). A group that showed some hesitation early on because they feared having to take on that settlement, because one of the women was pregnant...

    And what do you know, the story gifts them Joel on their doorstep, with no requirement to sneak into or siege the settlement, and with just two other people that they could easily eliminate. So why the fuck don't they put bullets into Tommy and Ellie? The only witnesses to their identities and their heinous acts. (I'll even take it up a notch, with the level of singular hatred that Abby and the group showed, they could've killed Tommy and Ellie while Joel was alive so that he could watch, before then killing him. Because that's the sort of hell they clearly wanted to inflict on Joel and one that would mirror his massacre of their loved ones.)

    Naughty Dog created this world where people may not make the same decisions as people from our world. People like us - us - may be compassionate. We may let Tommy and Ellie live because we just needed Joel (and only Joel) dead. But our world is not that world. A world where Abby and her group would spend years to find and torture Joel, risking everything for revenge, and a wholly justified one in their eyes. And they kill and brutalize him BUT leave witnesses who both have an idea as to their identities and who'll undoubtedly come for them just like they came after Joel. This scene is what sets the entire narrative of the game into being. Into existing. In the world that Naughty Dog created, Abby would've killed Joel, Tommy, Ellie, and then simply left. Chances are no one would have even discovered it was them, because Joel and Tommy have assuredly pissed off a ton of dangerous people.

    So are Abby and her group idiots? No. But the writers of the game don't seem to think much of us, the audience. Not enough that we should care about these poorly-written characters and not if they can't even be consistent with the world that they're trying to immerse us in. I've seen others online feel similar about that scene/plot point, what it entails, and even how it could've been done a dozen other ways and still be less nonsensical. And with what happens later in the narrative, it all comes off like such an infantile, romanticized attempt at a revenge story that does nothing but leave a bad taste in your mouth.

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    Shindig

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    You've got to think Druckmann and the other writers have had years to mull this over but this hasn't landed well. There's a thing that happens within the first 10 minutes which set me off as well.

    Tommy finding out about the lie and taking it to the grave. No objections so any nagging doubts or potential the ending of the first game had is wiped away.

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    devise22

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    Man this entire debate surrounding all this has just been a sea of yikes takes in my opinion. That said, comparing LOU2 to Schlinders list has got to be one of the most hyperbolic, marketing ass takes that there is. Even if you look past the "zombie action/stealth game" to holocaust film comparison, trying to use it as the launching point for a years old exhaustive debate on games as an art form is just so tacky.

    The attempts to defend the comparison scream with some seated validation issues and with respect you see a lot of that sentiment even in this very thread. Criticisms that big budget games are too "Avengers or Bad Boys" and don't delve into serious subject matter feel so muted when the actual gameplay of any "serious big budget game" devolves into a murder fest 99% of the time. Further that, most notable examples people dredge up about "serious" games like this or say Spec Ops The Line aren't even treading new ground or pushing perspectives that other mediums haven't deeply explored far better. Which in lies one of the biggest issues with the tacky comparison made to begin with. The very nature of TLOU trying to service and market it's "grim dark edge" is entirely in service of it's "grim dark immersive gameplay." You don't have to read many of the reviews to see many, even the positive ones criticize the game for it's lack of tonal awareness, especially in regards to the choices or lackthereof the player is allowed to make.

    This isn't a problem exclusive to TLOU either, a lot of more serious big budget mature games that try to tell these types of stories all do so entirely in service of gameplay where violence is the primary focus. Then they all thing they are "art" by being woke about who and what are being violent. Just because a game, or any content for that matter attempts to deal with sensitive, poignant, or a serious relevant subject matter does not mean it's making a point on those things. Much like your campy action content can mass market based on various tropes and cliches, so to "prestige media" markets on it's own set of various skins that delve across all spectrum of serious topics and issues. It's the decision to not take a stance, or say anything of remote consequence on those subjects that turns them from relevant into just another trope. It is entirely why a comparison to Schlinders List is tacky at best, and beyond laughable at worst. It's becoming a huge norm too these "back of the box" type quotes meant to sell it as this high art with hyperbolic nonsense.

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    SpicyFoodMan

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    Twitter, the playground of the idiot - Noel Gallagher

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    dancinginfernal

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    @arcitee said:

    @dancinginfernal: I dont remember it perfectly well, but isnt The Road ultimately positive or hopeful in the end?

    Barely. There is a simple act of mercy and kindness in the wake of the film's greatest tragedy. Relative to the tone of the film as a whole, it is hopeful, but it is still a miserable film. Everything I hear seems like TLoU2 fills that mold but chops the hopefulness out of the end in favor of driving its point home for the nth time.

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    FancySoapsMan

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    I dont get what it is about this series that inspires such hyperbole. Yeah the first game was cool but there have been much better and/or unique games before and after it.

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    Onemanarmyy

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    #157  Edited By Onemanarmyy

    @fancysoapsman: I guess that it's a whirlwind of multiple factors.

    - Sony exclusive studio & game, implications for the console wars.

    - Beloved developer with (for some) a pristine trackrecord, steering away from the cartoony adventure of Uncharted into gritty drama. A game that's supposed to be the new pinnacle of linear storybased games.

    - Everything surrounding the LGBT stuff and how people feel about that.

    - Graphically very impressive, which gives it mainstream appeal.

    - The constant praise by critics despite not innovating in the gameplay aspect rubbing people the wrong way. Others arguing that the story & characters are the focus and that they nailed that aspect. Endless discussion / shout at eachother potential.

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    devise22

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    @onemanarmyy: The issue there is people kind of let the various degree's of difference between fair critique and bullshit gamer outrage merge in a way that they lose themselves in some large "sideism" regarding this.

    I think Rob's Vice/Waypoint review is a good one, but do the people who like this game also not read the positive reviews otherwise? Many of them don't just praise the game, they offer some of the same critique to the ones that some are getting mad at. It's like the moment you try to have a deeper conversation about the game suddenly it has to be marred with some sort of movement because god forbid we be honest and thoughtful about our medium.

    Especially when, there is a huge conversation to be had regarding how limiting the mechanics/tone marketed towards a specific subset of mostly men that exists in this game and every single big budget game regardless of how serious it's tone is that is attempting to sell as many copies as possible. Obviously the onus isn't on Naughty Dog to "fix" this issue, and thus it shouldn't be impossible for those folks to see the line that many think it's a great game, but it's still an open door for some of the larger problems people have with big budget gaming, especially that clash when it tries to be "artful." That isn't denying that the medium isn't art, it's making the point that the "standardized gameplay format" for most big budget games is absolute trash at trying to convey any artistic points. It serves only to sell to a large group of people looking for that same old thing every time out. Jeff had a very great snide remark on the most recent Minecraft episode they did, where Brad mentioned something to the effect of "kill it and upgrade your gear" and Jeff responded with a "I feel you just described every big game in the last 5 years." To me that feels very on point and explains one of my biggest frustrations with big publisher gaming this last generation. I feel like I've been playing "bigger and better" versions of every last generation game I liked for the most part.

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    Arcitee

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    @dancinginfernal: okay gotcha, couldn't quite remember. so far I like the game, I think by the end I will both love and hate it but after 1000s of hours of gaming, I appreciate things that are different or thematically challenging

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