From KeSPA's Standpoint 
 
1.  KeSPA makes Starcraft popular during the early 2000s, Blizzard does nothing. 
2.  Starcraft Brood War grows into something no one expected, not even Blizzard. 
3.  In the years coming, Starcraft Brood War pretty much started E-Gaming. 
4.  In 2008 Blizzard wants piece of the money, they ask for "Royalties". 
5.  KeSPA says Blizzard never asked when SCBW was growing, and wants to know why it's now such a big deal. 
6.  Blizzard makes shady deals and does everything to maintain their copyrights.  
7.  Blizzard wants cash, and cash alone.  Greedy fucks.
 
--------  
 
From Blizzard's Standpoint 
 
1.  Dudes are using our games in live TV, it will help the game grow. 
2.  We are making a sequel and want to make money off it this time. 
3.  Goes to KeSPA and says "gg" it was fun...give us money. 
4.  Claims to do it for "copyright" reasons, yet has no problem if other TV stations follow Blizzard's new ruleset.   
5.  How can we force copyrights?  Take out the LAN and require users to connect to Blizzard's Servers for online play. 
6.  Thanks for all the help KeSPA, we don't need you anymore. 
 
------- 
 
Bottom line, it has everything to do with monies.  KeSPA is pissed because they made SC what it is today.  Blizzard is pissed cause they couldn't cash out on it back then, and want to start cashing in on it now. 
 
LAN play didn't require copyright laws due to it not physically touching anything Blizzard owned server base.  Hence why they took it out, and require the forced Battle.net 2.0 login to play...it proves the TV station is airing stuff on Blizzard's servers, and Blizzard is all over it.
 
Both sides are at fault, so I won't pick one.  It's up to you guys to make up your own minds.  Just know both sides fucked up.

Wait...KeSPA made SC what it is today? While i don't deny they gave it publicity I think you'll find that Blizzard are the ones that made the game what it is today. With or without KeSPA it would still be an awesome game. Blizzard own the copyright, fair enough there is an area of discussion over whether they can enforce it after so long in regard to streaming events..but legally they have every right to attempt to enforce it.  If they find a way of using it to generate more income for themselves, tough luck.
They are a company, their main focuses are providing the best experience possible and therefore generating the highest cash flow possible. Why is anyone surprised that they want to make as much money out of their product as possible? Are people that naive to think otherwise?

"That's KeSPA's point, Blizzard didn't do shit to help Koreans into this and it was privatized. "

Yeah I'm gonna side with Blizzard on this one. They can do whatever the fuck they want seeing as StarCraft wouldn't exist without Blizzard.

It still seems to me that Blizzard decided to look at the news one day, realised that KeSPA were making a ton of money after building up for so many years, and therefore wanted to grab some of the money. Whether or not Blizzard made the starcraft franchise what it is today is irrelavent - it still looks like attempted theft in my eyes.

" It still seems to me that Blizzard decided to look at the news one day, realised that KeSPA were making a ton of money after building up for so many years, and therefore wanted to grab some of the money. Whether or not Blizzard made the starcraft franchise what it is today is irrelavent - it still looks like attempted theft in my eyes. "

Still, greedy fucks! Making everyone pay, with the no LAN decision, so that they can cash in, in tournaments.  

their game their rules i guess, 
And for LAN i couldnt care less. Warcraft 3 has LAN. I love that game but i didnt touch the LAN option,

To be honest, this is simply a failure on both parties.  Blizzard has the right now to get some sort of pay for televising their game over there, but at the same time, you would think Blizzard would be catering more effectively to the very people who grew the game into what it is today, a national pastime.  Sure the game was a success world-wide, but the success of the rest of the world do not hold a candle compared to what they had (and still has to some extent) over at South Korea.  No other country looked at the game as a sport, and created official leagues over a single game.  I still find it crazy that South Korea went this nuts over software when I think about it.
 
In summary, I pretty much have a similar viewpoint to KaosAngel on this issue.  Also, what happened to the Pro League?  Did Blizzard just can this?  I would have thought that league would be great to bring all the top players under one unified ladder, but I guess they dropped yet another ball here?

 Both sides are at fault, so I won't pick one.  It's up to you guys to make up your own minds.  Just know both sides fucked up. "

" @KaosAngel said:

 Both sides are at fault, so I won't pick one.  It's up to you guys to make up your own minds.  Just know both sides fucked up. "

It seems like you have indeed picked a side after I read the rest of this thread. This is obvious propaganda. "

Very fair and balanced - I see a job reporting for FOX NEWS in your future.

Its Blizzards game. Its as simple as that. They can do what they please.

I never realized that Blizzard just made games out of the goodness of their hearts.  I thought they were always trying to make a living off of the work they do.  hunh.... they are greedy... just like every other game company/business?

A company wanting to make money off of their product?  WHAT!?  Unpossible!

"But the number was still "light of some forecasts," according to Lazard Capital analyst Colin Sebastian, who said Activision's official numbers might not paint the entire picture of the commercial strength of the game.
"While this number is light of some forecasts, we view this as largely a U.S. [plus] Europe number, with the majority of users in Korea still not reflected in the count," Sebastian noted. In Korea, the game, released worldwide on July 27, is massively popular, and pro StarCraft players are treated as celebrities.
"In other words, once the game in Korea shifts from 'free trial' to purchases, we expect the overall user base to be closer to the forecasts, and sales figures not as front-end loaded as expected," Sebastian said.
The analyst noted that the business model for StarCraft II varies by region. While Westerners pay for the game in one lump at retailers or digitally through Battle.net, other regions charge for the game using time cards and other models based on usage.

"

"But the number was still "light of some forecasts," according to Lazard Capital analyst Colin Sebastian, who said Activision's official numbers might not paint the entire picture of the commercial strength of the game.
"While this number is light of some forecasts, we view this as largely a U.S. [plus] Europe number, with the majority of users in Korea still not reflected in the count," Sebastian noted. In Korea, the game, released worldwide on July 27, is massively popular, and pro StarCraft players are treated as celebrities.
"In other words, once the game in Korea shifts from 'free trial' to purchases, we expect the overall user base to be closer to the forecasts, and sales figures not as front-end loaded as expected," Sebastian said.
The analyst noted that the business model for StarCraft II varies by region. While Westerners pay for the game in one lump at retailers or digitally through Battle.net, other regions charge for the game using time cards and other models based on usage.

Gamasutra news article, dated August 3rd.  I'll wait until the Korean sales numbers are published before calling it. Either that or how many KeSPA players can resist the temptation of being prohibited of playing Starcraft 2. "

   Perhaps an analogy would be helpful.   
 

While this ignores some of the minutia of the situation, including the up-front cost of broodwar and Blizzard's continuous patch support, it addresses what I feel is the major predicament faced by Blizzard, KeSPA, and SC fans.  The debt each party has for the other does not preclude Blizzard from trying something new.

"@Jazz: The Koreans see it as "them cashing in".  Blizzard was all happy to let Korea populate BW worldwide by showing people what was possible.  iCCup jumped in and unified the regions, and made hands down the the best way to rank someone with millions and millions of users worldwide.    Without Korea, BW would not be as big as it is now.  All the legends, all the tales, all the epic matches, they wouldn't be there.  Look at WC3 and how that turned out, BW would've followed the same path without Korea.  You need to see it from the Korean's eyes.  They feel Blizzard is doing it just to get rich and not help the community.  The current League system is a joke, but people who just started with SC2 and never heard of iCCup think it's fine.  In truth it isn't.  The hardcore BW fans lost out most with this fiasco.   EDIT:  Blizzard could have easily jumped in during 2000-2007 and asked for royalties, but they didn't.  They waited to see how big it would get. " 

Hmm well at least they didn't try and jump in on BW popularity and try to be bitches about that. 
 
SC2 is shiny new content, and Blizzard wants a take of the profits being made off of their intellectual property. Seems only fair to me.

I'm all with you. My main issue is that I'm pissed to see that they got rid of LAN and replaced it with something you have to constantly log into. I'm sure that Blizzard has a pretty good online infrastructure and is able to keep downtimes from happening, but it's peoples internet connections. I know for a fact that maybe once or twice a month my internet goes out for a good 6 or 7 hours due to something going wrong with Time Warner. During that downtime I would like to still play my games. Now to see the reason why they took out LAN was to have a constant connection into their own servers is just ridiculous. At this point Blizzard has lost my attention. They completely forgot what PC gaming is all about. People running their own connections and servers. 
 
Yeah argue your point all you want, but I sure the hell don't want my PC turning into a console.

The fact that Blizzard allowed KeSPA to build an entertainment empire on the backs of their hard work for free was a kindness. They did it because at the time, it was made sense and they didn't change it because there was no reason to. 
 
Just because Blizzard didn't tell KeSPA to license their game in the past (when they were using their game to make millions), doesn't mean Blizzard can't or shouldn't tell KeSPA to license their game this time around. 
 
Blizzard has done nothing wrong. In fact, the fact that they allowed KeSPA to use their game for free for 8 years is pretty fucking generous. KeSPA claiming they have have "right" to use Blizzard games to make money without having to pay any royalties or licensing fees to Blizzard is ridiculous.  

 Without Korea, BW would not be as big as it is now     
  KeSPA makes Starcraft popular during the early 2000s, Blizzard does nothing.     
  KeSPA is pissed because they made SC what it is today     
  it was the Korean companies that build up the BW community      
 Without Korea, BW wouldn't be what it is today.      
 

 Blizzard could have easily jumped in during 2000-2007 and asked for royalties, but they didn't.    

"I know for a fact that maybe once or twice a month my internet goes out for a good 6 or 7 hours due to something going wrong with Time Warner. During that downtime I would like to still play my games. "

Who cares? Just go play Starcraft.

" JokerSmilez: But... But... I don't see FIFA paying the inventor of soccer, right? Pro sports isn't "owned" by anybody, so KeSPA's free to use Starcraft as they see fit.  According to KeSPA, of course.  Of course, I think the inventor of soccer has been dead long enough, let alone being completely lost to history, for it to fall into the public domain. And last time I checked, Chris Metzen, or at least Blizzard, is still alive. "

" Wait...KeSPA made SC what it is today? While i don't deny they gave it publicity I think you'll find that Blizzard are the ones that made the game what it is today. With or without KeSPA it would still be an awesome game. Blizzard own the copyright, fair enough there is an area of discussion over whether they can enforce it after so long in regard to streaming events..but legally they have every right to attempt to enforce it.  If they find a way of using it to generate more income for themselves, tough luck.They are a company, their main focuses are providing the best experience possible and therefore generating the highest cash flow possible. Why is anyone surprised that they want to make as much money out of their product as possible? Are people that naive to think otherwise? "

" @ch13696 said:

"I know for a fact that maybe once or twice a month my internet goes out for a good 6 or 7 hours due to something going wrong with Time Warner. During that downtime I would like to still play my games. "

ummm, idk who told you this but you can play SC2 offline. it's like steam in that sort of way. where it's meant for online, and a lot of the features are for online, but you can totally play your games offline. you can play the campaign, challenges, custom maps, vs ai games, etc. i mean let's face it here guys, nobody is upset over the lack of LAN play because you and a buddy both legally bought your own version of the game and you want to be able to play it without internet for some reason.  "

" @groin said:

" @KaosAngel said:

 Both sides are at fault, so I won't pick one.  It's up to you guys to make up your own minds.  Just know both sides fucked up. "

It seems like you have indeed picked a side after I read the rest of this thread. This is obvious propaganda. "

Doesn't seem like it to me. I think it's just there's a lot more people defending Blizzard in this thread so Kaos responds by criticizing Blizzard more. "

Starcraft 1 ain't Starcraft 2. If this Kespa fellow can't strike a deal with Blizzard then he should continue making money off SC1 instead. If Kespa was as big of a factor as people say he is, SC2 should fail without him. 

" The fact that Blizzard allowed KeSPA to build an entertainment empire on the backs of their hard work for free was a kindness. They did it because at the time, it was made sense and they didn't change it because there was no reason to.  Just because Blizzard didn't tell KeSPA to license their game in the past (when they were using their game to make millions), doesn't mean Blizzard can't or shouldn't tell KeSPA to license their game this time around.  Blizzard has done nothing wrong. In fact, the fact that they allowed KeSPA to use their game for free for 8 years is pretty fucking generous. KeSPA claiming they have have "right" to use Blizzard games to make money without having to pay any royalties or licensing fees to Blizzard is ridiculous.   "

You mean to tell me a company is actually sicking up for a copyrighted property, and wants ROYALTIES??????? Off of something they CREATED??!?!?@?@>!??!>>??? How dare they! I mean, why should people that actually make the games we love profit from them????? One eyed much @Kaosangel. Troll for trollings sake sure, but at least put forward a cohesive argument..... You are fooling yourself if you think the video game industry is anything other than a money making scheme 
 
 
 
.... BAM! 

" Its Blizzards game. Its as simple as that. They can do what they please. "

wah wah wah someone else makes a fantastic game and I want to make money off it AND THEY WONT LET ME WITHOUT SOME THERE WAY wah wah wah 
fucking capitalists 
ill make sc3 thatll teach them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blizzard has every right to do what they do. They are a business after all.

" @Jazz said:

" Wait...KeSPA made SC what it is today? While i don't deny they gave it publicity I think you'll find that Blizzard are the ones that made the game what it is today. With or without KeSPA it would still be an awesome game. Blizzard own the copyright, fair enough there is an area of discussion over whether they can enforce it after so long in regard to streaming events..but legally they have every right to attempt to enforce it.  If they find a way of using it to generate more income for themselves, tough luck.They are a company, their main focuses are providing the best experience possible and therefore generating the highest cash flow possible. Why is anyone surprised that they want to make as much money out of their product as possible? Are people that naive to think otherwise? "

I agree with everything you said except for one thing. KeSPA did make SC what it is today. No doubt. You're right. With or without KeSPA, SC would still be an awesome game. But it would not have generated such enormous revenue out of it without KeSPA. In fact, I might even argue SC2 is the result of SC sensation that purely KeSPA generated. But that might be a stretch so don't quote me on that. The bottom line is that the whole SC sensation and E Sports thingy were heavily generated by KeSPA internationally and especially in Korea. Great game alone does not create trend. You gotta have sponsors and KeSPA was happy to do that. Of course, they did not have any rights to ignore SC copyright so that is purely their fault. "

" @JokerSmilez: While I agree with you, I feel a sudden urge to correct the FIFA thing.
 
FIFA will probably never have to pay for their balls and Addidas will probably be very happy to pay FIFA to use their balls. Addidas could ask FIFA to pay for the balls, but then they would lose the lucrative use of "The Official World Cup Ball", available at authorized resellers, for a limited time only since they'll put out another, different ball in 4 years (or 2, if including the UEFA deal).

   

"

Now that's just silly. Giving 1s because there is a lot of 10s, that generally means that someone is trying to create controversy.  
 
I don't think that's why KaosAngel made this thread and is replying in such manner.  
  
He's got an opinion and he's just expressing it. (And yeah he is taking a side. Saying he isn't is a stretch.)     

the korean esports leagues made starcraft the esport it is today, not blizzard.
 
I dont have any vested interest in kespa, but blizzards money grabbing really hurts the game as an esport and as a game.
 
No LAN is terrible for a pro scene, and no server switching also is.
 
how many times are you watching a video and a player has to use some borrowed account just to play in a tourny?
 
LAN is very important for pros. Cross country latency is absolutely shit, and it causes pros to play waaaaaay worse than their actual skill level.