New Vegas was poopy. Hope the south park rpg is good.

I thought New Vegas was better than Fallout 3. Sadly, the fucking abysmal ports of Dungeon Siege 3 and Alpha Protocal make me have 0 sympathy for them.

@BigDaddy81 said:

Here's hoping that Steve, aka the entire QA department, wasn't let go.

lol, that was the first thing I thought too :P

Stinkeroo's. Kowalkowski and Fader were both good gentlemen.

At least Jim has a sense of humor about it. (From his Facebook page.)

@jasondesante said:

lets be honest the company died when they shitted (not shipped) New Vegas, that buggy buggy piece of poo

I found way more bugs in my play-through of Fallout 3 than I ever did playing New Vegas.

Sad to hear as always, especially in the economy we are in.

This sucks but I would think there would be a sigh of relief not working for a company that makes their name off sequels to others original ideas.

@Brockly46 said:

This sucks but I would think there would be a sigh of relief not working for a company that makes their name off sequels to others original ideas.

how are fallout 3, kotor1, and nwn1 "original ideas"? Fallout was originally made by a bunch of dudes who mostly work at Obsidian now, so they have more claim to it than bethesda, in the creative sense. and the other two are a star wars game, and a game that tries to model tabletop dungeons and dragons. :/

oh, and dungeon siege was of course a diablo clone, basically.

anyways, I'd argue that Obsidian's games have all been much better than what came before them (in the case of New Vegas, I'm only comparing it to Fallout 3, btw, not the original classic games, and in the case of kotor2 I'm factoring in the restoration project)

From Avellone's Twitter (They got 84)

Gahzcan FNV was a straight payment, no royalties, only a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic, which we didn't.

@Lemi said:

From Avellone's Twitter (They got 84)

Gahzcan FNV was a straight payment, no royalties, only a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic, which we didn't.

depressing

@Superfriend said:

@TheGorilla said:

@Superfriend said:

@Cross said:

Quite surprising to me, considering the success of New Vegas, and it's too late for Alpha Protocol to still have ramifications.

Well, this company seems to be run by PURE CHAOS that has manifested in human form or something. They hire somebody and then let them go a week later? Any sane human being would NOT hire anybody if business is bad.

But I guess we are talking about the video game industry here. 80% of it seems to be run by complete morons. A shame that a company responsible for a recent million seller can´t seem to stay afloat.

What the hell's wrong with you? The project got cancelled by a publisher. The guy who hired that guy would have had no way of knowing. It's like if you bought a new TV and then got fired a week later. You would have had no idea that you were about to be put in a financially tough situation until after you made the purchase. Whenever you think the people in charge are morons take another look at yourself. You'll almost always find that you are the idiot for not understanding what is actually happening or why it's happening.

Edit: Another person here said their friend was the hiring manager and also got fired.

I would hope that the decisions that are made in any kind of business don´t just happen out of thin air. The publisher doesn´t fucking airdrop some lawyers through their roof that then make a split-second decision to cancel the project. They probably knew there was a big chance this project would be cancelled and still they decided to hire. Not judging Obsidian as a developer.. but this stinks of baaaaad decisionmaking on some people´s parts.

At some point someone had to find out for the first time. Projects always have the possibility of being canceled. You know absolutely nothing about this particular situation. I hate to be the one to inform you, but the primary business managers don't oversee all hires in large companies. As was pointed out by someone else the hiring manager was let go as well. We don't even know what the guy was hired for. Try not to jump to negative judgements (because that is exactly what you are doing) so quickly about internet news stories that you know almost nothing about. My point is that we don't understand the situation at all so you should probably stop accusing people of making terrible business decisions. I don't think they need that. But whatever, I'm just trying to get in an internet argument so I can more easily procrastinate.

Oh, man. That's a bummer.

Hey, Chris! Go on Kickstarter! I'll give you double what I gave Double Fine.

@Rorie said:

At least Jim has a sense of humor about it. (From his Facebook page.)

Jim too? Super sad day when the guy who got my foot in the door is let go. So wish I could be at the meetup tonight for old time's sake.

Obsidian is one of those companies that always had a great amount of ambition, and it showed in their games. They weren't all perfect, but they pushed a lot for player choice, and consequences. They put a lot of work into crafting a world and a story that could suck you in and keep you going, and I love them for it. I hope this doesn't bode ill for them, and hope they recover. We need the Fallout: New Vegas equivalent for Skyrim, and Obsidian is the only one I can think of that would be able to craft something even greater than Bethesda.

It has been said before; the industry no longer has any room for the traditional RPG. That kind of game is far too niche for the modern market. RPG elements will survive into other genres, but that is it.

This is depressing. I still feel that Alpha Protocol is one of the most sorely overlooked games of this generation. They should've gotten way more credit for how good the story and choices were, despite some occasionally clunky gameplay. And I'm still a fan of KOTOR II. I always felt like Obsidian just couldn't catch a break.

Shit... I'm so used to seeing news about layoffs at companies that I honestly don't care for much, so this kind of hits hard. Obsidian really knows how to design great RPGs, it's a shame that they just aren't always executed as well as they should be. I feel like maybe there is some kind of problem with their QA process, or maybe they just have a hard time getting a good handle on the technology they are using. It's hard to feel like a little extra focus in that department wouldn't have prevented this. Either way I really enjoyed New Vegas despite its flaws, and I was really looking forward to their next project.

This sucks. I loved New Vegas and Alpha Protocol.

@Bats said:

Obsidian is one of those companies that always had a great amount of ambition, and it showed in their games. They weren't all perfect, but they pushed a lot for player choice, and consequences. They put a lot of work into crafting a world and a story that could suck you in and keep you going, and I love them for it. I hope this doesn't bode ill for them, and hope they recover. We need the Fallout: New Vegas equivalent for Skyrim, and Obsidian is the only one I can think of that would be able to craft something even greater than Bethesda.

I agree on all accounts. If we don't ever see more Alpha Protocol, that will be unfortunate since that was a pretty amazing, underrated title.

Jeeze, dropping lead producers and such? That is a degree more serious than laying off new hires and QA grunts.

Really shitty. Easily one of the best RPG developers around. Though what's interesting to note is that this canned project was supposedly a straight up next-gen game being published by Microsoft.

@PenguinDust said:

I really foresee a future (perhaps it's already here) where every game is made by a temporary studio for that single release. When it's done, they're all fired and the mad dash to be on the next game begins.

Damn it, don't write that. A publisher could read it.

@Sapp said:

But why Obsidian? Why the good guys?

Also that.

Given their track record of realising horribly broken games, firing their lead programmer could be either a brilliant or terrible idea. Not sure which.

@Icaria said:

Given their track record of realising horribly broken games, firing their lead programmer could be either a brilliant or terrible idea. Not sure which.

Sigh, I rally wish people would give the "Obsidian lol bugz!" meme a rest. I've played through Alpha Protocol three times and S-ranked it, and it's not in any way shape or form "horribly broken". And while I can't claim the same amount of experience with Dungeon Siege III, what I did play was an entirely bug free experience.

Fuck. Now we're stuck with an increasingly evil Bioware.

Scores don't matter.

This kind of thing always sucks. Hope it doesn't affect that South Park game to much, want to see what they can do with that concept.

I thought New Vegas was better than F3 and I loved Alpha Protocol because of how similar it was to Mass Effect 1. I always look forward to new projects from them. This is a shame :(

from NeoGaf on Obsidian's cancelled next-gen game (Project North Carolina), which would have been published by Microsoft:

"This is my take as an outsider with friends who were and are in the industry looking in.

Why it was canceled: Microsoft is shifting a lot of its upper management. Now political battles within Microsoft are nothing new, these seem to be larger, more bold. Usually when the new boss comes in, they will examine projects in development. Often pet or favorite projects that are in the early stages are the first to go. Not because they are bad, or won't make money. Most of the time, they are doing this to send a message. To establish their "vision" is hard if they spend their first year in office in service of the last guy's "vision".

Why Obsidian is in trouble with this project's cancellation: Possibilities include Obsidian was horrible mismanaged financially, failed to get a milestone payment from MS or THQ, to other projects they were hoping to get didn't come in. What I think really happen is Obsidian went all in to make a Next Generation game. Early in a generation's life cycle, development is extremely expensive. It is possible that they put every resource they could into the game. The owners forgo their pay and money for South Park was diverted to the project as well. Making a great game at a generation's launch could have launched them into being the main developers of a triple AAA funded franchise . There was no plan B. Besides, Microsoft isn't a shaky publisher and their boss at Microsoft loves what they are making. Well, the wind changed direction and Obsidian lost what seemed to be a safe bet.

I don't think this is going to kill them. (at least I hope not) I don't think they have burned any bridges with publishers. They are just going to have to be lean for awhile till the next project comes in."

@MrKlorox said:

@oraknabo said:

Dammit, I just read lat week that Tim Cain had just joined on as a perment team member and now they're losing pretty high level people.

Oh really? Damn, Obsidian is probably the best place for Cain right now. I wonder if he's replacing some folks or is going to be looking for more work himself soon.

If you look at Avellone's tweets from Feb 20, you can see it. If I was Cain, I'd maybe be questioning my decision now.

Maybe now that so many are working together again, if Obsidian goes down, all the Black Isle guys can form a new company under Bethesda or someone like that. I know that's a lot of wishful thinking.

I really enjoyed Dungeon Siege III.  Oh well... now I don't feel bad for buying it used (at a pawn shop no less).  Sounds like it all came down to the FNV metacritic score.

@LordXavierBritish: FUCK THAT. That's fucking soul crushing, and a shitty way to make a contract. I can't believe that's acceptable behavior.

KOTOR 2 and New Vegas were brilliant. Hell, I even really liked Alpha Protocol a LOT. This is sad news indeed.

They won't be going out of business... will they?

@ptc said:

I really enjoyed Dungeon Siege III. Oh well... now I don't feel bad for buying it used (at a pawn shop no less). Sounds like it all came down to the FNV metacritic score.

nah, it mostly comes down to Microsoft cancelling Project North Carolina.

Very low hopes for the next generation of games considering how the industry is run, time to find a new hobby.

Watch the unannounced project be KOTOR3

I'd hate to be that one schlubb that just started work on Monday, get 
shit-canned on Friday of the same week.  I wonder if he quit a job  
before he started that one?  Get fucked over like that. Can you imagine? 
 
Obsidian doing a South Park RPG already sounds bad enough, like 
the writing is on the wall.  Go back to the godam Aliens RPG.  If Aliens 
didn't want it, why didn't they just rip off the fucking serial numbers & 
produce their own??  I don't get it.  

This is very sad :/ Really like their games even though I always end up buying them when they're in the bargain bin.. The other day I bought the Neverwinter Nights Complete package from Gamersgate for 5£, feel bad about that now.. Should have found it for full price somewhere... Sorry guys.. Promise to buy two copies of your next game.

I really hope these guys can survive. There is clearly talent there but with THQ publishing the South Park RPG they're making, I can't see things turning out too well. Their games aren't always of the highest quality but there will always be something you can take away from them such as the conversation system from AP. Many (if not all) of their games are not greater than the sum of their parts but they do have individual pieces that are very interesting.

@mrcraggle said:

I really hope these guys can survive. There is clearly talent there but with THQ publishing the South Park RPG they're making, I can't see things turning out too well. Their games aren't always of the highest quality but there will always be something you can take away from them such as the conversation system from AP. Many (if not all) of their games are not greater than the sum of their parts but they do have individual pieces that are very interesting.

I dunno man. THQ does publish a lot of crap, but there are some true gems that they publish. Look at all of Volition's games, and Darksiders. They are the underdogs of all the publishers, and I for one would be sad to see them go. They aren't doing well. In fact, they might be the new Atari.

@BlackLagoon said:

@Icaria said:

Given their track record of realising horribly broken games, firing their lead programmer could be either a brilliant or terrible idea. Not sure which.

Sigh, I rally wish people would give the "Obsidian lol bugz!" meme a rest. I've played through Alpha Protocol three times and S-ranked it, and it's not in any way shape or form "horribly broken". And while I can't claim the same amount of experience with Dungeon Siege III, what I did play was an entirely bug free experience.

Amen brother! Alpha Protocol was panned because people had perconceptions with it being an Obsidian game. Also, most people, including Jeff & Giantbomb, expected a action game or Mass Effect clone. It's an RPG damnit! It has action integrated into the gameplay, but it is a story driven RPG. All actions are based off of die rolls. If you accept that, it's a really fantastic game. I played through it three times too! Each time was so different from the last. That's what I love about the game. There's SO MUCH going on, and so many different paths you can take.

Obsidian doesn't deserve the stigma they've been given as a developer that releases very buggy titles. The only buggy title I've played of theirs is Fallout New Vegas (and I've played every Obsidian game cause I've a huge fanboy of theirs). That game was buggy not because of Obsidian's programming, but because of the engine they used; Gamebryo. Look at Fallout 3, same buggy mess because of the engine. Dungeon Siege 3, while not one of their best games, was bug free for me. I just don't get why they get so much shit that is undeserved.

I did not like the tradeoff dungeon seige 3 made. Safe and bug free is worse than ambitious and flawed when it comes to rpg developers who have aimed for the same level of scope as bethesda's elder scrolls/fallout games. Even if they essentially took the roots of those games and game engine and re-purposed them.

Fallout new vegas is one of my all time favorite games. And I really hoped that obsidian would do another fallout game. This is a huge dent against that possibility, at the very least a dent in the timeframe.

@Sapp said:

But why Obsidian? Why the good guys?

because they're not really "the good guys?"

Let's be factual. Obsidian cannot create anything on their own. They take a game/IP already established and tweak things..yes sometimes those tweaks are better gameplay wise. And I've liked just about every game of theirs I've played...even Alpha Protocol (which did get a bad rap for no reason...it was a damn good game and did exactly what they said it would...the negativity around it is because every reviewer took out their bullshit on them because they were stupid and thought the game was going to be something it wasn't meant to be.)

However Obsidian doesn't have an original bone in their bodies. Even Alpha Protocol, which was their own IP, was just a Mass Effect 1 clone set in the modern day with spies. Again with tweaked gameplay/mechanics.

It's best if Obsidian does get disbanded so that those there WITH TALENT can go on to companies that are capable of creating their own successful IP's..becaue that is not Obsidian.

That said it always does suck to hear of more layoffs. So I wish those affected luck. But truth be told Obsidian needs to give their talented people to companies that can produce something besides sloppy seconds.

@BlackLagoon: I came across one and only one bug in DS3: occasionally, some of the intersections in Stonebridge would invisible walls appearing out of nowhere for no good reason (that is, no loading was happening). Step back a bit and walk forward again. That was it, the one and only bug I found in it. That's pretty good going for any developer.

I don't get why people rib Obsidian about DS3's story: the Dungeon Siege games have hardly every had anything resembling a compelling storyline before, so Obsidian's effort at least raised the franchise's (admittedly low) storytelling bar a fair few notches.