I mean honestly. The story of the first Max Payne is just so incredible. The feeling of the story, the graphic novel, the music setting the tone for the story. It's all so perfect. So please enlighten to your personal opinion as to why you think the story of Max Payne is one of the greatest.
I agree that it's one of the best videogame stories I've ever experienced, both the first Max Payne and the sequel. The noir-feel and atmosphere is just phenomenal.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Takes a deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Wipes tear from eye* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAH,etc. etc.
LOL, this is like the most amazing coincidence ever :-P. To answer this, a similar question was just posed on another site I visit and what this guy said was like he reached into my mind:
I would say that for myself, while I've experienced a lot of great stories, I become so nostalgic when I think about Final Fantasy VII. It's still THAT game for me. There have been great games since it with arguably better stories in different genres, but it's THAT defining game in my youth that made me fall in love with games. All of the characters had good and even heart-wrenching backstories. The music added so much atmosphere to the experience. There wasn't a single annoying character that didn't have at least some depth, including Yuffie.
I will never forget Final Fantasy VII. So many amazing moments. It really makes my heart plead for a remake. My one request for an FFVII remake would be not to include voice acting. It might mess up the nostalgia for me.
BiggerBomb said:
hazelnutman said:
"Sorry, FFX still stands for me."
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Takes a deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Wipes tear from eye* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAH,etc. etc.
That's just wrong. FFX wasn't that bad. Wasn't great, but wasnt' bad. It had a decent enough story, but not a crowning achievement in the FF franchise
"LOL, this is like the most amazing coincidence ever :-P. To answer this, a similar question was just posed on another site I visit and what this guy said was like he reached into my mind:
I would say that for myself, while I've experienced a lot of great stories, I become so nostalgic when I think about Final Fantasy VII. It's still THAT game for me. There have been great games since it with arguably better stories in different genres, but it's THAT defining game in my youth that made me fall in love with games. All of the characters had good and even heart-wrenching backstories. The music added so much atmosphere to the experience. There wasn't a single annoying character that didn't have at least some depth, including Yuffie.
I will never forget Final Fantasy VII. So many amazing moments. It really makes my heart plead for a remake. My one request for an FFVII remake would be not to include voice acting. It might mess up the nostalgia for me.
BiggerBomb said:
hazelnutman said:
"Sorry, FFX still stands for me."
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Takes a deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Wipes tear from eye* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAH,etc. etc.
That's just wrong. FFX wasn't that bad. Wasn't great, but wasnt' bad. It had a decent enough story, but not a crowning achievement in the FF franchise
"
I'm sorry, if someone likes Final Fantasy then I am perfectly ok with that. It isn't my cup of tea, though I understand that many people like the series.
But to say that Final Fantasy games have great stories is insulting. Each game is about a metrosexual, spikey-haired kid in a quasi-futuristic universe trying to save the day from some evil witch or a maniacal demon/organization which threatens the city and possibly nation of the unsuspecting hero. Over the course of the game the boy or girl will be joined by an eccentric and flamboyant cast which all serve for comic relief except for that one melodramatic, overly serious squad member who distrusts the protagonist but learns to accept him/her in the end.
"LOL, this is like the most amazing coincidence ever :-P. To answer this, a similar question was just posed on another site I visit and what this guy said was like he reached into my mind:
I would say that for myself, while I've experienced a lot of great stories, I become so nostalgic when I think about Final Fantasy VII. It's still THAT game for me. There have been great games since it with arguably better stories in different genres, but it's THAT defining game in my youth that made me fall in love with games. All of the characters had good and even heart-wrenching backstories. The music added so much atmosphere to the experience. There wasn't a single annoying character that didn't have at least some depth, including Yuffie.
I will never forget Final Fantasy VII. So many amazing moments. It really makes my heart plead for a remake. My one request for an FFVII remake would be not to include voice acting. It might mess up the nostalgia for me.
BiggerBomb said:
hazelnutman said:
"Sorry, FFX still stands for me."
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Takes a deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*Wipes tear from eye* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAH,etc. etc.
That's just wrong. FFX wasn't that bad. Wasn't great, but wasnt' bad. It had a decent enough story, but not a crowning achievement in the FF franchise
"
I'm sorry, if someone likes Final Fantasy then I am perfectly ok with that. It isn't my cup of tea, though I understand that many people like the series.
But to say that Final Fantasy games have great stories is insulting. Each game is about a metrosexual, spikey-haired kid in a quasi-futuristic universe trying to save the day from some evil witch or a maniacal demon/organization which threatens the city and possibly nation of the unsuspecting hero. Over the course of the game the boy or girl will be joined by an eccentric and flamboyant cast which all serve for comic relief except for that one melodramatic, overly serious squad member who distrusts the protagonist but learns to accept him/her in the end.
That is why I laugh."
Dude, Final Fantasy games may follow the layout you mentioned but there are few stories that don't. You can cookie cutter most movie dramas into those generalizations as well. For example, while not the pinnacle of movie making obviously (titles I reserve for films like Mulholland Drive, There Will Be Blood, Taxi Driver, In the Mood for Love, and even Before Sunset for its fantastic, true, and simple script), two good examples of this kinda shit is comparing movies like Chuck and Larry and Old School.
They're both about older, but generally immature men, one of whom is kind of a womanizer/partier/etc and the other kind of a clean cut guy who take advantage of a situation. The difference is one is pretty hilarious and other is a steaming pile of dog shit.
It doesn't matter is if a story follows a perceived formula, but what it does in spite of that formula, and in FFVII's case it does a f'n fantastic job.
The degree to which formulas are adhered to is entirely different in the case of the movies you mentioned and J"RPGs." One is an adult situation which if parodied in/correctly can make for some hilarious or terrible "comedy."
Final Fantasy plot lines are all of completely ridiculous stories and characters which adhere to the same rehashed formula Square-Enix invented themselves; in actuality exposing their lack of innovation. It may seem hypocritical to not use a game series such as Legend of Zelda in this situation due to its own continued adherence to the damsel in distress mantra; however, this plot line can be deviated in such ways to create dramatic, engaging, or even humorous stories and adventures.
On the other hand there is absolutely no variation within the Final Fantasy universe other than city/character names, whilst continuing a thread of storytelling (though admittedly well done) does not represent any realistic struggles or conflicts which are relevant to the player or any theme and trend of life. Some could argue that this is the very nature of "fantasy" or science fiction in general, but the object of said genres is to remove the player/reader/viewer from their own world and place them into an experience the drama/humor/excitement of which can immerse said audience into a world which may relate to aspects of their personality and/or desires.
Immersion and interaction are what allow an other series to surpass the limitations of Final Fantasy's linearity. Final Fantasy is little more than a slightly interactive movie, which pretty much disqualifies it from classification as an RPG. The player has no say in character and story progression, allignments and consequences, or even the outcome of the story. So not only do the games themselves adhere to the same irrelevant story, but the players must as well without any choice in its progression or outcome.
"On the other hand there is absolutely no variation within the Final Fantasy universe other than city/character names, whilst continuing a thread of storytelling (though admittedly well done) does not represent any realistic struggles or conflicts which are relevant to the player or any theme and trend of life. Some could argue that this is the very nature of "fantasy" or science fiction in general, but the object of said genres is to remove the player/reader/viewer from their own world and place them into an experience the drama/humor/excitement of which can immerse said audience into a world which may relate to aspects of their personality and/or desires."
While I agree to some extent with you and your generalized blueprint for an FF story is accurate, it still doesn't change that because the worlds, characters, backstories, and even the conflict itself is different in just about every FF game does make then unique to one another despite the formula, and having played through several of them, I stand by that assessment.
Baldur's Gate (The whole series) and Planescape:Torment (This one is deep in a way JRPGs like FF can only dream to be one day). Also, BG II is the best game ever.
"Fair enough. I don't really care if someone likes Final Fantasy, but don't you dare call it an RPG. That's criminal."
So what would you call it? It is an RPG... Would you not call it one because it has long cinematics and dialogue sequences? If so, then what's Mass Effect? Or jut about every RPG I've ever played in my life?
Can that policy extent to other genres? For instance, what would one qualify Metal Gear Solid 4 as? An interactive movie?
[quote]But to say that Final Fantasy games have great stories is insulting. Each game is about a metrosexual, spikey-haired kid in a quasi-futuristic universe trying to save the day from some evil witch or a maniacal demon/organization which threatens the city and possibly nation of the unsuspecting hero.[/quote]
Quoted for truth. That's why I hate anime. Every single one has some purple-hair-color spiky haired guy as the HEEERO. It's stupid. It's unrealistic. And it's just gay.
"[quote]But to say that Final Fantasy games have great stories is insulting. Each game is about a metrosexual, spikey-haired kid in a quasi-futuristic universe trying to save the day from some evil witch or a maniacal demon/organization which threatens the city and possibly nation of the unsuspecting hero.[/quote]
Quoted for truth. That's why I hate anime. Every single one has some purple-hair-color spiky haired guy as the HEEERO. It's stupid. It's unrealistic. And it's just gay. "
If you can't get past the "gay spikey haired heeero" and the magical elements often found in them because they are "unrealistic", you would find good storylines. If not, then that's just castigating the entire genre of fantasy which is by the very definition of its name "unrealistic." And one principle that generally holds true is that those who critically examine everything under the scope of realism are unimaginative and boring.
Of course the things that happen in the game are "unrealistic." Their narratives are rooted in the genre of fantasy, not to mention the fact that it is called Final FANTASY.
"Fair enough. I don't really care if someone likes Final Fantasy, but don't you dare call it an RPG. That's criminal."
So what would you call it? It is an RPG... Would you not call it one because it has long cinematics and dialogue sequences? If so, then what's Mass Effect? Or jut about every RPG I've ever played in my life?
Can that policy extent to other genres? For instance, what would one qualify Metal Gear Solid 4 as? An interactive movie? "
final fantasy is an RPG! like in crisis core, you play the ROLE of zack, in order to stop genisis, what other genre would you call the FF series?
"I mean honestly. The story of the first Max Payne is just so incredible. The feeling of the story, the graphic novel, the music setting the tone for the story. It's all so perfect. So please enlighten to your personal opinion as to why you think the story of Max Payne is one of the greatest. "
Dunno but it isn't anything made by Kojima thats for sure.
I'm perfectly willing to accept Final Fantasy's bizarre mixture of magic and metrosexual young men if the story itself is entertaining. However, Final Fantasy games have always been terribly written. I'm not just talking about grammatical errors and typos, but the actual dialog is abysmal. The conversations between characters are, at best, awkward and unnatural, and at worst, inane. But back to Max Payne:
Max Payne has some of the best most personality-filled dialog in any game. Max's narrations are definitely hammy, but the game was entirely self-aware of this. The tone and atmosphere was perfectly captured, and the story knew precisely when to get dark and a little creepy (Max's dreams). Max Payne's story doesn't have the plot twists of an MGS, but plot twists do not a good story make. For sheer style and entertainment value, Max Payne's story is hard to top.
Final Fantasy X had a great story.....but for right now hands down it's Mass Effect (Keywords: Right Now) it's got just about everything I want in it.....realistic characters, deep rich sense of reality, which is sorely lacking in most Sci fi games and movies...all the characters and races in general are very realistic it's not like Star trek (or Star Wars for that matter) where the other races that aren't human (or the closest thing) just get a mention and maybe a couple lines of dialouge for the fans to fill in the blanks, Bioware filled in the blanks and added more to that for you all [/rant]
yea like I was saying Mass Effect have a great story (Especially since it has another great mark of a good story in any genre of entertainment, even after watching the trailer you still ain't see nothing)
Deus Ex is one of the best video games in all the history, this video game has been considered as the best Post-Apocaliptic video game in all the history, but is very, very, too LONG!...
I'm surprised nobody's said it, but what about Final Fantasy Tactics? At a time when a lot of RPG storylines were pretty twee and predictable, FF Tactics completely broke the mould and offered something entirely different. Alongside the traditional themes of war, friendship and love, it dealt with interesting issues such as birthright, religion, and the distorted concept of right and wrong.
I thought Suikoden 5 had a great story. Absolute best, though, I'd have to give it up to Grim Fandango or Full Throttle.
As for the FF debate, I'll toss in my two cents and say that despite the certainly cliched Japan-isms, VII and X are lightyears better than most games on the market.
Max Payne reminds me of Bioshock when talking about it's story. It's not very unique or interesting but the way it's told through dreams and comic book esque drawings is really amazing. This is definately one my favorite games of all time but Mass Effect propably has the most interesting story in a game.
"Max Payne reminds me of Bioshock when talking about it's story. It's not very unique or interesting but the way it's told through dreams and comic book esque drawings is really amazing."
I agree. And also, while you say it's not particularly new, not much is these days but the impact and detail the story and characters had is definitely what made it what it is rather than the actual scope of the plot.
It's hard to compare Mass Effect to Max Payne. ME is a realistic space opera epic. Max Payne is a personal, ultra-stylized over-the-top noir. Mass Effect, as many others noted, tries to be realistic and engaging (and succeeds at this), something every JRPG ever fails at.
It is one of the best stories I've seen in a game, yes. But to say that it is the absolute best? I really want to say yes because I love the Max Payne games, but I'm not sure it'd be justified when there's quite a few games out there with excellent stories that could rival ol' Max.
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