Something went wrong. Try again later
    Follow

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

    Game » consists of 30 releases. Released Nov 11, 2011

    The fifth installment in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls franchise is set in the eponymous province of Skyrim, where the ancient threat of dragons, led by the sinister Alduin, is rising again to threaten all mortal races. Only the player, as the prophesied hero the Dovahkiin, can save the world from destruction.

    Skyrim: Survival Mode Musings

    • 72 results
    • 1
    • 2
    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    Edited By ahoodedfigure

    I don't need games that are arbitrarily harder, but I like it when there are little requirements that make me feel like it's an actual game universe I'm visiting, and not just a colorful screen where I pull a lever and get pleasure pellets.
     

    Maintenance in Games

     
    When I heard that Fallout New Vegas was going to have a hard core mode with survivalist traits, I think that was the first time that I felt like this generation's big titles were actually aiming for old grognards like myself. But from what I've heard, it's not that intensive an increase in difficulty. Water is plentiful, is the example I usually hear.  Still, I can't say I always like those sorts of requirements in games. The older Ultima games seem ridiculously sped up and my adventuring party a bit too ravenous. I remember fighting to fill their black hole stomachs, hurrying to steal food off tables just to stay alive. Kind of tedious, really.
     
    In the Elder Scrolls, weapons have had durability. Even in Arena, the very first ES game, your weapons wore down over time requiring a visit to the blacksmith. Daggerfall continued the tradition, but in subsequent games fixing items actually felt LESS fun to me. The difference was that you could give a blacksmith in Arena a big pile of objects to repair, and then you could pick whether they would be done quickly, or cheaply. The more items you wanted fixed and the cheaper you wanted it, the longer it took. The more items and the quicker you wanted them, the more expensive it was. Those choices actually enhanced the experience for me somehow, that choice made it feel less like a stupid task and more like I was spending my ill-gotten gains for a nice convenience.
     
    It all comes down to balance of course, but I DO like a certain amount of maintenance in my games. It helps separate adventuring time from reflective downtime a bit (though of all the RPGs I've played, I think Darklands still does downtime the best), and as long as it's not too much work I think it adds some flavor. I imagine if Skyrim has any maintenance requirements that they'll be minimal, but one of the nice things about recent Elder Scrolls games has been the simultaneous release of content creation tools, meaning that someone with enough time, resources, and knowledge can create some pretty epic mods.
     
    I'm not sure if you could ever mod in hunger and sensitivity to cold using creator tools, but it doesn't hurt to hope. Below are some of the things I'd like to see in a Skyrim survival mode:
     

    Hunger

     
    Since Morrowind, eating has been there to provide bonuses. One of the first items in Morrowind was a loaf of bread that restored stamina, a stat that recovered slowly in that game unless you slept. Potions and edible materials (no matter how gross you imagined they'd taste) would give you basic stat increases or penalties, but they were never really necessary. I guess I like the idea of slow hunger, perhaps represented by stamina drain. In the newer games, Stamina is something that comes back quickly, and is basically used during combat when you're zipping around doing fancy maneuvers, and possibly for running but I don't quite recall. It's used to show short-term exhaustion, but since it refills quickly enough it's not that big a deal. But say that over time it doesn't refill quite as quickly, and maybe its maximum is a bit lower, all until you sit down to a bowl of yeti stew.
     
    When in the wild you might prepare food from animals and plants you find, or when in town you could order something from the local tavern, or buy stuff from the market and fix it yourself. It adds a bit to that downtime feeling I'm talking about, making it feel like there's a point to cities other than being a source of quests and gear.
     
    Even tougher: When stamina bottoms out, restore it at a cost to health, and don't let stamina recover until you heal properly.
     

    Cold

     
    In Skyrim this seems especially appropriate to me. Like hunger it doesn't need to be too dramatic, but I like the idea that the cold will wear you down. Maybe in order to avoid freezing in a blizzard, you decide to hide in a nearby cave, which might reveal something to you that you wouldn't have otherwise noticed. Or it might force you to camp every once in a while, instead of walking for days on end with no apparent loss in composure. At the inns you can seek out fireplaces to warm up, or maybe hold your hands over a lit torch in the dungeon. Here I'm thinking of games like Cryostasis.

    Even tougher: go ahead and make the cold deadly, and depending on what you're wearing and how cold it is around you, this could cause damage pretty quick. Makes sense given that Nords in this game don't have frost resistance like they did in earlier games. Let me emphasize: should be important what you're wearing. At least in survival mode, I want to be punished for running naked in the snow.

    Gear Durability


    There may not be a durability mechanic in Skyrim, but when I talk about durability systems I more mean bringing back some of the ideas in Arena, where you can go to a blacksmith (or if skilled in smithing, do it yourself) and get all your gear repaired either quickly or cheaply. Assuming you spend the night in town, perhaps an apprentice will deliver the equipment to you in the morning (for a gold piece), so everything in the downtime portion of a game is centralized around that inn. If you do it yourself, time-lapse it like it does when you sleep. This could open up magical gear which has a self-recovering durability feature (extending this further you could have items that provide you with at least minor relief from certain conditions or diseases; buy an herbal kit that can heal a specific disease, rather than generic curing of all diseases), or gear that can't be repaired (like ethereal items in Diablo, but they don't need to be magical).

    Even tougher: Make the expense for keeping your gear in working order a sliding scale. Make consistent repairs cheap, and make last-minute repairs so expensive that you might as well buy new stuff. This actually might not be a whole lot of fun, but it will add a bit of realism if that's what you want.
     

    Ingredient Rot

     
    Freshly collected potion ingredients should be more potent. You should also be able to prepare ingredients to make them slightly less potent but last a long time, or keep them in treated pouches that slow down decomposition. Tangential to this, I think it might be cool that you don't just loot skins and meat off of your kills; the process should take a little time. I always thought it was weird that you could bash the hell out of a wolf and then loot the hide from it like it was carrying its own skin in a backpack.
     
    Even tougher: Not that this sounds appealing to me, but: make stuff become useless if it's out too long.
     

    Thirst


    In snowy regions this can be solved by just chomping on a little snow, but that will bring down your body temperature. Melting snow at a camp might be a better idea, or drinking ale or water at an inn if that's what's available. If there's ever a desert setting for an Elder Scrolls game this will make more sense, but NV had thirst despite the ubiquity of water so I don't see this as being too big a deal.

    Even tougher: Perhaps certain creatures or traps can cause conditions like thirst to get worse, or even extensive bleeding when you've lost a lot of health. And this goes for Hunger, Durability, and Cold: let monsters cause damage conditions that make these survival things worse. Give the player a bit of lore ahead of time maybe, saying these creatures sap heat from their victims, so that players will be prepared with Warmbrew potions and plenty of furs. 

    Injuries and Crippling Wounds


    I wouldn't want you to be stopped in your tracks, you might as well load at that point, but for those of us stubborn enough to suffer through minor inconveniences, the loss of use of an arm after getting your shield arm smacked by a dragon, or the reduction in speed due to a hit to the leg, would make surviving in time to get healed all the more rewarding.

    Even tougher: Let disease creep in more often when you get hurt badly, and let natural healing either take longer, magical healing, or need a bit of the old-fashioned "surgery". Yeah, sounds masochistic, I know.


    The Greatest Challenge of All: Convincing Anyone this Is a Decent Idea


    A lot of these things can be play-acted, of course. I guess what I like is when the game actually confronts you with these obstacles to see if you can handle it, but doesn't do it so often that it becomes a game about feeding and clothing yourself ( Roman calling you on the cell phone all the time is an example of things maybe going too far). I figure it wouldn't be for everyone, so I'd more like it for the people who get a bit of a rush overcoming these sorts of challenges. It still comes down to balance, and it comes down to variation. Like with the blacksmith example, I think I liked Arena's system more because it wasn't just an obstacle, it felt like it had weight to it, like fixing my gear took a degree of effort that could be ameliorated with money or time, and that if I wanted I could skip it for a little longer, and THAT would be my way around the obstacle for the time being.

    What these features would need is a way to figure out when it would be a good idea to bring them in. It might step away from the simulation aspect a bit, but having a "director" or "dungeon master" AI that decides when there's a lull in the game would help with that, inserting a hunger, thirst, or disease obstacle like older games might do random encounters, but do it in a way that only pops up if you happened to be walking a long, long way.

    But hey, I don't think random encounters are necessarily a bad thing, so I know I'm not going with the popular sentiments on this! :)

    Any games you care to mention with survival or maintenance elements that actually worked for you?
    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #1  Edited By ahoodedfigure

    I don't need games that are arbitrarily harder, but I like it when there are little requirements that make me feel like it's an actual game universe I'm visiting, and not just a colorful screen where I pull a lever and get pleasure pellets.
     

    Maintenance in Games

     
    When I heard that Fallout New Vegas was going to have a hard core mode with survivalist traits, I think that was the first time that I felt like this generation's big titles were actually aiming for old grognards like myself. But from what I've heard, it's not that intensive an increase in difficulty. Water is plentiful, is the example I usually hear.  Still, I can't say I always like those sorts of requirements in games. The older Ultima games seem ridiculously sped up and my adventuring party a bit too ravenous. I remember fighting to fill their black hole stomachs, hurrying to steal food off tables just to stay alive. Kind of tedious, really.
     
    In the Elder Scrolls, weapons have had durability. Even in Arena, the very first ES game, your weapons wore down over time requiring a visit to the blacksmith. Daggerfall continued the tradition, but in subsequent games fixing items actually felt LESS fun to me. The difference was that you could give a blacksmith in Arena a big pile of objects to repair, and then you could pick whether they would be done quickly, or cheaply. The more items you wanted fixed and the cheaper you wanted it, the longer it took. The more items and the quicker you wanted them, the more expensive it was. Those choices actually enhanced the experience for me somehow, that choice made it feel less like a stupid task and more like I was spending my ill-gotten gains for a nice convenience.
     
    It all comes down to balance of course, but I DO like a certain amount of maintenance in my games. It helps separate adventuring time from reflective downtime a bit (though of all the RPGs I've played, I think Darklands still does downtime the best), and as long as it's not too much work I think it adds some flavor. I imagine if Skyrim has any maintenance requirements that they'll be minimal, but one of the nice things about recent Elder Scrolls games has been the simultaneous release of content creation tools, meaning that someone with enough time, resources, and knowledge can create some pretty epic mods.
     
    I'm not sure if you could ever mod in hunger and sensitivity to cold using creator tools, but it doesn't hurt to hope. Below are some of the things I'd like to see in a Skyrim survival mode:
     

    Hunger

     
    Since Morrowind, eating has been there to provide bonuses. One of the first items in Morrowind was a loaf of bread that restored stamina, a stat that recovered slowly in that game unless you slept. Potions and edible materials (no matter how gross you imagined they'd taste) would give you basic stat increases or penalties, but they were never really necessary. I guess I like the idea of slow hunger, perhaps represented by stamina drain. In the newer games, Stamina is something that comes back quickly, and is basically used during combat when you're zipping around doing fancy maneuvers, and possibly for running but I don't quite recall. It's used to show short-term exhaustion, but since it refills quickly enough it's not that big a deal. But say that over time it doesn't refill quite as quickly, and maybe its maximum is a bit lower, all until you sit down to a bowl of yeti stew.
     
    When in the wild you might prepare food from animals and plants you find, or when in town you could order something from the local tavern, or buy stuff from the market and fix it yourself. It adds a bit to that downtime feeling I'm talking about, making it feel like there's a point to cities other than being a source of quests and gear.
     
    Even tougher: When stamina bottoms out, restore it at a cost to health, and don't let stamina recover until you heal properly.
     

    Cold

     
    In Skyrim this seems especially appropriate to me. Like hunger it doesn't need to be too dramatic, but I like the idea that the cold will wear you down. Maybe in order to avoid freezing in a blizzard, you decide to hide in a nearby cave, which might reveal something to you that you wouldn't have otherwise noticed. Or it might force you to camp every once in a while, instead of walking for days on end with no apparent loss in composure. At the inns you can seek out fireplaces to warm up, or maybe hold your hands over a lit torch in the dungeon. Here I'm thinking of games like Cryostasis.

    Even tougher: go ahead and make the cold deadly, and depending on what you're wearing and how cold it is around you, this could cause damage pretty quick. Makes sense given that Nords in this game don't have frost resistance like they did in earlier games. Let me emphasize: should be important what you're wearing. At least in survival mode, I want to be punished for running naked in the snow.

    Gear Durability


    There may not be a durability mechanic in Skyrim, but when I talk about durability systems I more mean bringing back some of the ideas in Arena, where you can go to a blacksmith (or if skilled in smithing, do it yourself) and get all your gear repaired either quickly or cheaply. Assuming you spend the night in town, perhaps an apprentice will deliver the equipment to you in the morning (for a gold piece), so everything in the downtime portion of a game is centralized around that inn. If you do it yourself, time-lapse it like it does when you sleep. This could open up magical gear which has a self-recovering durability feature (extending this further you could have items that provide you with at least minor relief from certain conditions or diseases; buy an herbal kit that can heal a specific disease, rather than generic curing of all diseases), or gear that can't be repaired (like ethereal items in Diablo, but they don't need to be magical).

    Even tougher: Make the expense for keeping your gear in working order a sliding scale. Make consistent repairs cheap, and make last-minute repairs so expensive that you might as well buy new stuff. This actually might not be a whole lot of fun, but it will add a bit of realism if that's what you want.
     

    Ingredient Rot

     
    Freshly collected potion ingredients should be more potent. You should also be able to prepare ingredients to make them slightly less potent but last a long time, or keep them in treated pouches that slow down decomposition. Tangential to this, I think it might be cool that you don't just loot skins and meat off of your kills; the process should take a little time. I always thought it was weird that you could bash the hell out of a wolf and then loot the hide from it like it was carrying its own skin in a backpack.
     
    Even tougher: Not that this sounds appealing to me, but: make stuff become useless if it's out too long.
     

    Thirst


    In snowy regions this can be solved by just chomping on a little snow, but that will bring down your body temperature. Melting snow at a camp might be a better idea, or drinking ale or water at an inn if that's what's available. If there's ever a desert setting for an Elder Scrolls game this will make more sense, but NV had thirst despite the ubiquity of water so I don't see this as being too big a deal.

    Even tougher: Perhaps certain creatures or traps can cause conditions like thirst to get worse, or even extensive bleeding when you've lost a lot of health. And this goes for Hunger, Durability, and Cold: let monsters cause damage conditions that make these survival things worse. Give the player a bit of lore ahead of time maybe, saying these creatures sap heat from their victims, so that players will be prepared with Warmbrew potions and plenty of furs. 

    Injuries and Crippling Wounds


    I wouldn't want you to be stopped in your tracks, you might as well load at that point, but for those of us stubborn enough to suffer through minor inconveniences, the loss of use of an arm after getting your shield arm smacked by a dragon, or the reduction in speed due to a hit to the leg, would make surviving in time to get healed all the more rewarding.

    Even tougher: Let disease creep in more often when you get hurt badly, and let natural healing either take longer, magical healing, or need a bit of the old-fashioned "surgery". Yeah, sounds masochistic, I know.


    The Greatest Challenge of All: Convincing Anyone this Is a Decent Idea


    A lot of these things can be play-acted, of course. I guess what I like is when the game actually confronts you with these obstacles to see if you can handle it, but doesn't do it so often that it becomes a game about feeding and clothing yourself ( Roman calling you on the cell phone all the time is an example of things maybe going too far). I figure it wouldn't be for everyone, so I'd more like it for the people who get a bit of a rush overcoming these sorts of challenges. It still comes down to balance, and it comes down to variation. Like with the blacksmith example, I think I liked Arena's system more because it wasn't just an obstacle, it felt like it had weight to it, like fixing my gear took a degree of effort that could be ameliorated with money or time, and that if I wanted I could skip it for a little longer, and THAT would be my way around the obstacle for the time being.

    What these features would need is a way to figure out when it would be a good idea to bring them in. It might step away from the simulation aspect a bit, but having a "director" or "dungeon master" AI that decides when there's a lull in the game would help with that, inserting a hunger, thirst, or disease obstacle like older games might do random encounters, but do it in a way that only pops up if you happened to be walking a long, long way.

    But hey, I don't think random encounters are necessarily a bad thing, so I know I'm not going with the popular sentiments on this! :)

    Any games you care to mention with survival or maintenance elements that actually worked for you?
    Avatar image for tehmaxxorz
    TEHMAXXORZ

    1190

    Forum Posts

    4491

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 2

    #2  Edited By TEHMAXXORZ

    Well to be honest, I don't really like the idea of collecting an item to survive before you die. But the points you make sound like they would be fairly cool in Skyrim, even if I wouldn't play the difficulty to add them in.

    Avatar image for kandycane2029
    Kandycane2029

    517

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #3  Edited By Kandycane2029

    Awesome post. I'd actually love to see all these ideas in Skyrim. New Vegas' hardcore mode was very enjoyable and it would be great to see them expand upon the concept.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #4  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @TEHMAXXORZ: Thanks. For me I guess it comes down to frequency or ease of finding that thing. Breath meters are pretty standard in games, where you have to rush to the surface to get a gulp of air before you start drowning. I like that sort of thing as long as it makes sense and doesn't feel sadistic. If it's something that's required all the time, it shouldn't happen too often, perhaps being less frequent than real life, since time tends to be sped up in games a bit.
     
    @Kandycane2029: Glad you liked it. I don't expect Bethesda to follow anything in New Vegas necessarily, since the latter was developed by Obsidian and had what seems to be a different approach than Bethsoft usually does. That's pretty much why I imagine this as a mod. As much as I was happy to see hardcore mode in NV, I figured that wasn't something that would spread like wildfire, even though I was happy to see a good number of players embrace the idea.
    Avatar image for wintersnowblind
    WinterSnowblind

    7599

    Forum Posts

    41

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #5  Edited By WinterSnowblind

    Hardcore mode in New Vegas was great and in my opinion, should have been the default setting, it made the game focus a little more on the survival aspects and was just much more enjoyable that way. I definitely hope we see something similar in Skyrim, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    The fact quest markers can be turned off is enough to make me happy for now. At least the game should actually have some sense of exploration again now.

    Avatar image for jack_daniels
    jack_daniels

    1619

    Forum Posts

    281

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #6  Edited By jack_daniels

    I think you would be a fan of gastanks in the GTA series. Nothing like jumping in a car to find its on E on you gotta get a quick fillup.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #7  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Jack_Daniels: Actually, yes I might. Would be a nice way to wear out people you were chasing, too, and add to random pedestrian angst when they run out of fuel in the middle of an intersection and people start beating up on the car.
     
    @WinterSnowblind: I'm not sure where I heard that the compass could be toggled... I'm still not 100% sure that's true, but it did make me happy to see other people were hoping the same thing I was.
    Avatar image for wintersnowblind
    WinterSnowblind

    7599

    Forum Posts

    41

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #8  Edited By WinterSnowblind

    @ahoodedfigure: Not sure if it's the entire compass that can be toggled off, as you're going to need it to show you directions.. So you'll still be able to see near by locations and such, which I'm sure will still annoy some, but quest markers (i.e. the big green arrow pointing you to every single objective) can definitely be turned off.

    Avatar image for arbitrarywater
    ArbitraryWater

    16107

    Forum Posts

    5585

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 8

    User Lists: 66

    #9  Edited By ArbitraryWater

    Honestly, the only irritating part of Hardcore Mode in New Vegas was the part where you had to actually use a doctor's kit to restore damaged limbs... especially since my character had taken the small frame trait, which is otherwise pretty much a penalty-free choice. And while water and food were never not in ready supply, I do think that mode added something to the experience, despite how easily Game Journalists seemed to balk at it like it was the return of games that required thinking.

    I would probably be into a similar mode if they put that into Skyrim. All this talk about hunger and cold exposure makes me remember my time with the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, which had concepts similar to what you are putting forward. (If it is below zero, the party takes 2d6 nonlethal damage each round if they are not wearing appropriate clothing) Of course, my 14 year old self was about as interested in keeping track of everyone's rations as he was about making a coherent D&D adventure, which is to say "Not so much".

    Avatar image for spacetrucking
    spacetrucking

    1080

    Forum Posts

    91292

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 4

    User Lists: 6

    #10  Edited By spacetrucking

    STALKER's Redux mod has everything you mentioned and more. Those games are incredibly realistic to begin with but the Redux takes things that extra mile by introducing hunger, bandages that only stop the bleeding but don't heal, makes weapon maintenance harder and so on and so forth. Just read their notes - most of it is very well thought out as it brings the game world very close to the real. I enjoyed it for a while but the problem is, it is a little too close to reality and makes certain parts of the game a chore (like real life).

    Avatar image for maluvin
    Maluvin

    750

    Forum Posts

    5

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #11  Edited By Maluvin

    @ahoodedfigure: I loved survival mode in New Vegas and I think your ideas would be really fun to see in Skyrim. Would be nice if they patched some of those in down the line as options or if a good mod came along.

    I do want to note that eating snow for hydration is a bad idea. Expends a lot of energy and I seem to recall that replacing the lost body heat from food is going to cost you a lot of moisture because of hydrolysis.

    Avatar image for nentisys
    Nentisys

    956

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 7

    #12  Edited By Nentisys

    I bet that within a week or two there will be a survival mod released for Skyrim. (presuming the mod tools are anywhere as powerful as for morrowind/oblivion)

    TES modding community is awesome!

    Avatar image for adamsons
    Adamsons

    877

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #13  Edited By Adamsons

    IIRC they are removing durability in Skyrim and as in Oblivion all it resulted in was that you had to keep a stack of hammers with you I'm not feeling any huge loss.
     
    I've always liked hunger as an idea, but it would really be down to the implementation imo. Having a bar that empties and you start losing health when you're staving to death isn't great. I actually kind of like your idea though - as time draws on you get weaker and more tired from hunger impacting your stamina.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #14  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Adamsons: Yeah, I wanted to stay away from actually dying with hunger-- I figure if that's possible fine, but I'd prefer something a little less harsh, with maybe total neglect finally taking its toll weeks later or something. But the weakness actually makes sense mechanically. I also think it would be fun if, after a couple of weeks of starvation, everyone started looking like Archimboldo paintings to your character. Nah, maybe that's too much. :) 
     
    I guess it was inevitable that durability would go. I actually never liked that weapons got less effective the way they did. I'd prefer it to be a bit more random, with a sudden notch in a sword making it a lot less effective. Sorry to use the word notch, don't want to confuse anyone into buying the wrong game! 

    @WinterSnowblind: I see. I heard from others it was the compass itself, but maybe that's what they meant. I guess we'll see, but even if it's just quest markers it'll help me lose myself in the world a bit more.
     
    @Maluvin: Very interesting. Glad I wasn't in a survival situation before now. I guess melting the snow's not a bad idea, though, assuming you had ample fuel. I've done that before, tastes kinda gross. Better than dying, but I guess if it's a question of heat conservation, what you say makes a lot of sense.
     
    @Nentisys: I'm really happy that Bethsoft's been pretty open with their modding tools. Some things seem harder for people to make than others, so maybe this sort of meta stuff would be impossible without some serious tinkering, but I can imagine, say, a universal "disease" condition that is basically just like the cold and hunger I described, and then the creator adds item properties that alleviate those problems. Since vampirism, at least from what I remember in Morrowind, had two discreet stages, you could have stages of hunger or hypothermia. Stop me if this is getting too survivalist.
    Avatar image for adamsons
    Adamsons

    877

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #15  Edited By Adamsons
    @ahoodedfigure said:
    Snip
    I just think if you impose death as the penalty then it is more of a case of - "I will fill my bags up with cake and eat one every hour to keep my hunger bar full" It just seems more of a required chore as opposed to an interesting mechanic. At least with stamina it can be a case of, I have been venturing around for a few hours, time to stop off at town and get some pie for full combat efficiency before attempting this next dungeon.
    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #16  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Adamsons: Good points. I think somewhere in the stamina part is the proper balance, perhaps. What they've been doing with stamina almost seems like sidelining it, so I guess I want to make it a bit more appreciated. I also like the idea of using it (like something similar in Darklands) as an alternative damage bar, where you can take a little damage and as long as it's not critical, it's more like you get a bit exhausted parrying or absorbing blows through your armor. As you tire you're more likely to let your guard down and take lethal hits that are harder to heal. But maybe that sounds a bit too much like combat dice rolls for some people.
     
    @Killjoi: Ohh, I'll take a look at that, thanks. STALKER was one of the games I wanted to check out when I get the chance. I wonder if actually making it harder might make it feel less like a chore, like with those people who do "iron man" runs, the whole one-life-then-you're-dead thing. That way you feel like you're working toward something rather than suffering through junk you could easily skip. But if the combat is balanced such that you get wounded a lot, and they expect that you would normally bounce back but for these mods, then there might be that balance problem again.
     
    @ArbitraryWater said: 
     

    Honestly, the only irritating part of Hardcore Mode in New Vegas was the part where you had to actually use a doctor's kit to restore damaged limbs... especially since my character had taken the small frame trait, which is otherwise pretty much a penalty-free choice. And while water and food were never not in ready supply, I do think that mode added something to the experience, despite how easily Game Journalists seemed to balk at it like it was the return of games that required thinking. 

    I didn't pick up much of that reaction, but I get that a lot of GJs are there to finish a game and write about it as much as they're there to enjoy games, so putting up such obstacles might sound to some of them like a deadline extension in their future. Was it that the doctor kit thing was altogether a pain to use, or was it more just that you happened to get a lot of criticals because of your trait choices? I never read up on the specifics post-release.

    I would probably be into a similar mode if they put that into Skyrim. All this talk about hunger and cold exposure makes me remember my time with the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, which had concepts similar to what you are putting forward. (If it is below zero, the party takes 2d6 nonlethal damage each round if they are not wearing appropriate clothing) Of course, my 14 year old self was about as interested in keeping track of everyone's rations as he was about making a coherent D&D adventure, which is to say "Not so much".

    Heh. Well, for the most part in my limited pen and paper RPG experience we never bothered. I did do that for 2e Dark Sun, where they were carrying around a satchel full of kank meat to survive (never mind that I learned it was inedible). I guess if it fits the mood of the experience it should matter, like trekking across the desert. Sort of like in a movie, you don't usually show a scene unless it has some sort of meaning, so if there's a chance of catastrophic failure then make them nervous by keeping track. But once they're back in arable land, assuming they have coin or good thieves, they shouldn't have to worry about it (because otherwise, like Adamsons is saying, it's time for bags of cake).
    Avatar image for mcghee
    McGhee

    6128

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #17  Edited By McGhee

    I support this idea.

    Avatar image for theodacourt
    theodacourt

    591

    Forum Posts

    143

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 8

    #18  Edited By theodacourt

    Great ideas! I'm surprised no one has mentioned tiredness or stopping quick-travel. I think tiredness would add to the fun and immersion, but stopping quick travel would get dull for me personally, though some may like that. I'd be up for stopping quick travel if I get my own personal dragon though. I kind of hope that happens at some point.

    Avatar image for jams
    Jams

    3043

    Forum Posts

    131

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 5

    #19  Edited By Jams

    I like how minecraft implemented hunger/healing into their game. If you keep yourself fed, your health regenerates. If you let yourself get hungry it doesn't regen. Also eating will restore some of your health and it isn't instant. Mix that with having to cook and mix food, you got yourself a nice little survival sim.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #20  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @McGhee_the_Insomniac: Since Moe is your icon, you get two votes.
     
    @theodacourt: Don't hold out for that dragon, but I guess "anything" is possible with mods :) Traveling, of course that makes sense. I got into a huge discussion about fast traveling before, so I'm afraid to bring it up again :)
     
    @Jams: I was actually thinking of Minecraft's new system a bit. I guess it conforms with the general desire for regen health, while making it not directly eating food = health, which always struck me as a bit weird (except when I'm deathly hungry, then it makes perfect sense). Not being a fan of regen health myself unless there's thematic justification, I guess I'd prefer it if that regen was nice and slow, so you had to be smart with expending health on risky maneuvers.
    Avatar image for steampunkjin
    SteamPunkJin

    1283

    Forum Posts

    592

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #21  Edited By SteamPunkJin

    I'm all for it, I was pretty hyped for Fallout New Vegas' Survival mode but what I heard was pretty disappointing. 
    I'd love for a whole game to be about survival - anyone play the Lost in Blue series on DS? It wasn't great but in terms of a pure survival RPG, it did a lot of things right.  At the very least, I'd like the options to toggle these hardcore survival settings on or off in my RPGs.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #22  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @SteamPunkJin: Yeah, I'm hoping people aren't afraid to insert these sorts of things where they make sense in games. I guess it's unlikely to see in Mass Effect, but there you go.'
     
    There are quite a few survival games out there, actually. I'm not sure if they're any good, because if you go too far in the survival direction my eyes glaze over a bit (but I'm waiting to see if anything will prove my cynicism wrong). I still haven't tried Robinson's Requiem by Silmarils yet. I hear the controls aren't so good. I guess it also depends upon how old a game you're willing to play, or how low tech the graphics, because people who make those sorts of games tend toward game detail and tend to give graphics a relatively low priority.
    Avatar image for bollard
    Bollard

    8298

    Forum Posts

    118

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 12

    #23  Edited By Bollard

    Awesome blog as usual ahoodedfigure! I didn't play New Vegas, and although the Hardcore/survival mode in that sounded a bit too much for me, I would actually be interested to mess around with one in Skyrim. Maybe on a second playthrough or after I had spent some time in the world. I like pretty much all your suggestions as to what it would encompass - some of the ingredient rot stuff etc. wouldn't affect me as I rarely play an alchemist, but I suppose that could be applied to food and the likes unless you say, salted it.

    I assume Skyrim won't ship with a mode like this (unfortunately), but one can hope for a mod.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #24  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Chavtheworld: Thanks. 
     
    Right now I'm hoping for a game that works on most PCs without a big patch, the fancy bits may come later. Has anyone see it play on a PC? I'm starting to wonder if some companies prefer to just release a game into the wild and have players test it before they fix problems, since there are so many different combinations of hardware bits to test things effectively for bigger games.
     
    EDIT: come to think of it, preparing animal stuff might fall into alchemy in a weird way, and you'd discover by doing what meat has the most value relative to the effort needed to get it.
    Avatar image for bollard
    Bollard

    8298

    Forum Posts

    118

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 12

    #25  Edited By Bollard

    @ahoodedfigure: Yeahhh, its definitely gunna be a console port, and I haven't seen any PC footage myself. It uses DX11 at least... barely. Guess we'll see if it works on launch day!

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #26  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Chavtheworld: I heard the high DirectX stuff was a feature more than required. I hope so, anyway; I haven't even checked what my future Frankenstein's Monster can do.
    Avatar image for bollard
    Bollard

    8298

    Forum Posts

    118

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 12

    #27  Edited By Bollard

    @ahoodedfigure: Yarrr I believe that's true, can't imagine it'd be forced considering it's gotta be running DX9 on consoles.

    Avatar image for project343
    project343

    2897

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 16

    #28  Edited By project343

    @WinterSnowblind said:

    Hardcore mode in New Vegas was great and in my opinion, should have been the default setting, it made the game focus a little more on the survival aspects and was just much more enjoyable that way. I definitely hope we see something similar in Skyrim, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    The fact quest markers can be turned off is enough to make me happy for now. At least the game should actually have some sense of exploration again now.

    Different strokes for different folks. I couldn't touch hardcore mode with a ten-foot pole. For me, RPGs are not about putting me in a world with realistic limitations, but rather, putting me in a world with unrealistic power. I'd rather run into a hostile city and gun everyone down without taking any damage. Or convince a character to murder themselves. Or make a potion that allows me to jump over hills.

    If I had to stop and drink contaminated water to survive... ugh. What a day-ruiner.

    Avatar image for wintersnowblind
    WinterSnowblind

    7599

    Forum Posts

    41

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #29  Edited By WinterSnowblind

    @project343: Well, in a game about surviving in a post-apocalyptic war zone, I think survival should play at least some part of the game. Having limited ammo, and actually having to scavenge for food and water, really made the experience a lot better.

    That's not to say I don't like the feeling of power, I just like there to be some kind of progression. One of the things that made Morrowind so great, was the fact you started the game barley being able to hit rats with your sword, but by the end you can literally take out gods with your bare hands. Without the struggling early on, it just isn't the same. But like you say, different strokes.

    Avatar image for danielkempster
    danielkempster

    2825

    Forum Posts

    28957

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 2

    #30  Edited By danielkempster

    Great write-up, hooded.

    Having not spent much time with old-style RPGs that depend heavily on the concept of maintenance, I tend not to have qualms with games that don't attempt to do this. Having said that, I played through New Vegas with Hardcore mode turned on the whole time, and I really enjoyed the extra level of depth it added to the game. It also really encouraged me to explore the benefits of boosting the Survival skill, something that I probably wouldn't have done otherwise. I would definitely be interested in similar mechanics being implemented into Skyrim, although the fact that the 360 is my only viable play option means I'll be missing out on any potential survival mods.

    Avatar image for maluvin
    Maluvin

    750

    Forum Posts

    5

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #31  Edited By Maluvin

    Anyone old enough to remember Ultima games where you had to keep a stack of food and water to survive?

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #32  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Maluvin: Yep. I mentioned them in the text, and I hated their hunger mechanic. My strongest memory of Ultima VII was wandering through the wilderness chowing down on pumpkins. They seemed way too hungry. The earlier Ultima game I played, IV, didn't make the characters seem nearly so ravenous. And games like Might and Magic had food too, but all it did was let you heal when you slept. No food, use magic or get to an inn. I thought that worked pretty well.
     
    @dankempster: I know where you're coming from, because that's how I experienced Morrowind. Missed out on some significant content and bug fixes. Didn't Survival sort of negate a lot of the problems in hardcore? Or did it only ease it a bit? Skill maxing still seems a bit weird to me in games like that.
    Avatar image for jimbo
    Jimbo

    10472

    Forum Posts

    2

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #33  Edited By Jimbo

    You're Dragonborn so maybe immune to the cold, but how about this: every so often you have to return home and throw some treasure (equipment you don't want, jewels etc) on to your ever increasing heap of treasure. If you neglect to do so you will stop feeling dragony and be unable to use dragon shouts. The bigger your hoard the more powerful your shouts become. --- I'm half joking, but I bet that would actually work out out to be quite a fun and addictive game mechanic. Essentially a Loot > Specialised XP converter, but with Scrooge McDuck's house in place of an XP bar.

    Avatar image for danielkempster
    danielkempster

    2825

    Forum Posts

    28957

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 2

    #34  Edited By danielkempster

    @ahoodedfigure: It's been a little while since I played New Vegas, but from what I can remember Survival essentially made it easier to stay healthy in Hardcore mode, by allowing you to do things like turn Dirty Water into Purified Water and other such things. I really enjoyed the impact it had on my game, encouraging me to hoard as many ingredients as my encumbrance would allow, haul them over to a campfire, and turn them into useful food, water and objects for my next voyage out into the wastes.

    I'm with you on the min-maxing thing, by the way. I don't think I maxed out any skill in New Vegas. Unfortunately I had to rely on it a lot when playing Oblivion, though, simply to game the system and stay on the curve the game obviously expected me to be on. That's another of the many reasons I'm looking forward to Skyrim - the new, supposedly better-balanced levelling system.

    Avatar image for crocio
    Crocio

    545

    Forum Posts

    78

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #35  Edited By Crocio

    I support this cause wholeheartedly, bro!

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #36  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Jimbo: I was thinking of a game mechanic a while ago where dragons, actual dragons, need to line their throats with molten gold, otherwise they burn straight through them when they breathe fire. It's the reason why they horde treasure; they eat it. So, as a dragon, you had to steal gold just to use your breath weapon.
     
    Also, one of the original Dungeons and Dragons pen and paper experience mechanics was actually to award experience for treasure. But I guess dungeon masters realized this made everyone murder for gold after a while. The buying power of treasure is sort of like alt-xp, in that you can use it to upgrade your dude in ways straight xp can't, so it would almost be a third option. Something a bit less abstract would be donating to a town you're protecting, giving money to your family's estate (or using it to upgrade your own), or sending plunder back to the army that employed you as a mercenary to ensure they don't come after you.
     
    @dankempster: Some people enjoyed gaming Oblivion's system; I got an earful for not acknowledging them. They're understandably disappointed that that SEEMS less necessary for the new game, but I guess we'll see if it winds up altering player behavior too much for people who feel they need a certain type of character. I wonder what happens when you find a weapon that you want to use, but that requires the "handed" skill you haven't been increasing all this time. How bad will you be at using it?
     
    Sounds like you had fun with the hardcore mode. I tend to hoard ingredients, but usually to my detriment, in games like this. It's nice to see that these things would be useful at some point; I tend to do the adventure game thing of picking up everything that isn't nailed down on the off chance it might be useful.

    As far as min maxing I think I made a whole blog about it once; I don't like to have to stay ahead of curves, but I also wonder at an engine that empowers me too much for spending all my points on one thing, unless I get to suffer in other areas in trade (and I'd prefer it if someone who puts points into a bunch of things may not be as good as someone maxed out in one thing, but they're less incompetent in general).
     
    @Crocio: cool, man. I guess we'll see what the mod tools allow when the time comes.
    Avatar image for arker101
    Arker101

    1484

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #37  Edited By Arker101

    All of those ideas sound really cool. You could probably implement those in the PC version with mods. I really liked the way Fallout 3 handled repairs, you could pay to have it completely fixed, or depending on your repair skill, find another weapon and break it down to repair yours. I know this doesn't make as much since with swords and bows, but that was fun for me.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #38  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Arker101: Actually, why not be able to break down junk loot into component parts? You're right that it wouldn't work for everything, but maybe the bowstring for bows, or melted-down ore for iron or steel weapons (assuming you can get your forge hot enough, or is that going too far?). 
     
    Maybe I'm moving off into territory some other game should explore, but I like the idea of EQUIPMENT having damage locations...  replace a strap on a backpack, replace the handle of an axe when it splits... hmm.
    Avatar image for cloudenvy
    Cloudenvy

    5896

    Forum Posts

    8

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #39  Edited By Cloudenvy

    The survival mode in New Vegas really fascinates me, but I would never ever play it. : )

    Avatar image for maluvin
    Maluvin

    750

    Forum Posts

    5

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #40  Edited By Maluvin

    @Cloudenvy said:

    The survival mode in New Vegas really fascinates me, but I would never ever play it. : )

    It's not as hard as it might sound except for the doctor's bags for limb damage. Makes for interesting moments. For whatever reason I never used drugs in Fallout games until New Vegas when I started using Hydra because I couldn't find a doctor's bag anywhere at one point. Character ended up getting addicted which for various reasons made for some hilarious moments.

    Avatar image for arker101
    Arker101

    1484

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #41  Edited By Arker101

    @ahoodedfigure:

    Bethesda has said you will be able to buy up multiple locations, and even Fallout 3 had a little house upgrading, so maybe when I buy my house in Whiterun allow the local Moira Blacksmith to sell me upgrades to my keep or whatever. A Forge, Anvil, Enchanted Table, etc, would be great additions to your house, and in addition would make the player character more invested in that location. I loved walking into Megaton because I had a base set up there and I was invested in the characters there, also because of The Wasteland Survival Guide and The Power of the Atom quests, and I never got that feeling in New Vegas, It would be nice to have a "Home sweet Home" feel to one of the city's, or something.

    Although, throwing in these types of upgrades would lessen the needs for a blacksmith, or training in some of the skills, therefore they're sort of counter-intuitive to your survival theme, unless changes are made. For example, make the Forge incredibly expensive, because the Blacksmith knows he's losing some gold, and make it require large amounts of -X-, but make that number decrease the higher your smithing level is. I think that would balance it nicely.

    Avatar image for getz
    Getz

    3765

    Forum Posts

    1003

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 4

    #42  Edited By Getz

    I agree with you on a lot of your ideas: what it all boils down to is immersion. Feeling like you're in a videogame is fine most of the time, but in an RPG it makes a lot of sense for the designers to go that extra mile to make you feel like you're in a living world; that you're a person and your actions have consequences. It can go a long way toward creating a "stickiness" with players. Unfortunately, that's not a part of Bethesda's ethos any more; they're perfectly content letting you know at every turn that you're playing a game.

    Avatar image for buneroid
    buneroid

    458

    Forum Posts

    4

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #43  Edited By buneroid

    The only one I think is a really good idea is cold. It would be really cool to, like you said, have to stop at an inn or something every once in a while. The other stuff I'm indifferent towards so whatever.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #44  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @Maluvin: That's a good point about the drugs. I remember that being something you could abuse way back in the first few Fallout games, but I never bothered I don't think (just like performance enhancing potions in general weren't really my thing until I found some cool side effects in Morrowind). But if you're desperate for an edge in a survival mode, then all these little enhancements start to make much more sense.
     
    @Arker101: The way I see it, you don't actually need the facilities in your house, unless you want to invest a lot of money and materials, but to create a sort of activity tree that allows you to select housekeeping stuff you want to concentrate on. The problem is, though, doing anything to make a process more convenient decreases, I'd argue, its immersion factor and makes it busy work. Like that feeling I got between Arena and Daggerfall, where Daggerfall made it easier but somehow that extra convenience made it more a chore.
     
    I have always loved having a house. I mean, I guess it's nice to be able to customize it, but in general it's neat if you have a staging ground of some sort, as long as it feels connected to the world.  In some games it didn't work for me just because I felt like it hovered just outside the reality of the world, like in Baldur's Gate 2 (Ranger dwelling) or Daggerfall's ship (and that one almost DID exist outside the reality of the world).
     
    @Getz: I wonder how much of it is really with Bethsoft itself, and how much it's with fans who might rightfully complain about inconvenience. Negative comments seem to carry more weight, so some random freak like me saying "oh, I like that I get diseases maybe a day later instead of instantly!" isn't going to be as noticeable as many more complaining about that. Hell, I probably complained about it at some point, not on a forum or anything, just because you'd get deep in a dungeon when you were suddenly overcome with the Death Sniffles. But instead of just reacting to a criticism by getting rid of something, one can keep with the original vision and just make it make a bit more sense, like getting slightly sick first, but gradually getting worse (sometimes, depending on how well your body fights infection). Then it becomes a player choice: do you press onward knowing you may get deathly sick, or do you abort and try to get healed?
     
    Instead if you appeal to the greatest number you will get a game that more people MAY like, but it loses some character in the process. Since I pretty much skipped Oblivion, though not on purpose, I don't know if Skyrim will feel like a further trend in conveniences. I like conveniences, like inconveniences, to be optional, so I can get exactly that immersion you're talking about.
     
    @Buneroid: Heh, well I think it was Cold that was actually the inspiration for this article (that took me months to actually work up the energy to write properly), so maybe you're picking up on that a bit. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Cryostasis mechanic, but watching someone play that game it almost like I could feel the warmth myself when the guy took his gloves off to warm them near an open flame. It fits the theme of Skyrim being a colder place pretty well, so I think it could be like you're fighting the hostile landscape almost, and the inns are like a place of refuge.
    Avatar image for gregoryc
    gregoryc

    193

    Forum Posts

    64

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #45  Edited By gregoryc

    Really dig some of the ideas you've posted about survival. I'd love to see some RPGs incorporate some survival design elements. Collecting herbs or materials from the world is something I've always liked and thought would connect players more to the world in which they play.

    Avatar image for selbie
    selbie

    2602

    Forum Posts

    6468

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #46  Edited By selbie

    I would love this idea if the game allowed you to learn and use more powerful weapons and spells that you wouldn't normally obtain in "Normal Mode" as a reward and incentive to endure the grind-ish nature of survival gameplay. Things like levitation (albeit a little more nerfed than Morrowind's crazy spells) that you gain at higher levels would make enduring the tough parts feel so rewarding.

    Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
    ahoodedfigure

    4580

    Forum Posts

    41781

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 64

    #47  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @gregoryc: Since Morrowind, Elder Scrolls has allowed some materials collection, so that will be in there. It's definitely fun, although I guess I tended to collect a bit too much and get buried in components until I felt I was ready to start mixing them (or just selling them off). In Daggerfall you collected components but could only mix them in specific places when you reached a high enough level with those places and had recipes you could use, so there was less experimenting. From what I've seen of Oblivion's system, I guess I'd like Morrowind's a bit better, but I imagine they're probably still moving in the Oblivion direction for most stuff.
     
    @selbie: Egge recently profiled Frayed Knights, which has bonuses for players who don't load their games, which I think is cool. I was sort of expecting there to be loot bonuses, though, and it was more about providing healing and even resurrections for players who were willing to risk their party without stopping every few seconds to save. So yeah, my mind's on loot bonuses too, and I think your idea fits pretty well. I wonder if you could have a sort of random generator, like a minor version of diablo's loot system, where if you pick the more detailed survival mode, loot that's generated has a chance to have secondary characteristics that you wouldn't get in the main game. Little advantages, specific damage against specific creatures, that sort of thing, to help balance out any increase in difficulty. As much as I like the idea of just doing this stuff for fun, there would be something in the back of my mind wondering if I would get rewarded for this behavior at some point beyond whatever immersion I might get.
    Avatar image for deactivated-5f90eabee6bba
    deactivated-5f90eabee6bba

    584

    Forum Posts

    415

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    Survival is a really hard thing to work in. Only certain games can do it AT ALL, and then they have to be done correctly. Open world RPG's are one of the few genres that it would work in. The important thing is that it needs to be fun. I remember being a scout in Star Wars Galaxies and I had to escort another player to another city who was a dancer. I forgot the gameplay mechanics of it but I had to camp for some important reason and then me and the other player talked for awhile until we... healed up? That experience always stuck out to me. Camping by yourself is probably a boring thing in real life: Idea:

    Your followers only have certain conversations with you if you camp. "Telling stories around a campfire" is an established trope that happens in real life. They're not going to tell you personal stuff when they're fighting alongside you are they?

    Avatar image for kyreo
    Kyreo

    4680

    Forum Posts

    5544

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 9

    #49  Edited By Kyreo

    The Hardcore mode in New Vegas was a great gameplay mode and required forethought and acting deliberately. What you have written here sounds like the next step up. I also like the concentration around the "Down Time" in the towns. After a long journey in New Vegas, towns off in the distance were beacons of hope and survival. Stepping that up would be interesting.

    Avatar image for joshth
    joshth

    732

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #50  Edited By joshth

    It seems like this is the kind of idea that would work best as an option, as it did in New Vegas. I know many people who would love to have this in Skyrim, and plenty others who would be annoyed by it. Making it a choice could allow everyone to be content.

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.