Bring Your B-Game: Bujingai - The Forsaken City

I don't think Bujingai is an actual B-Game it's more of a B--game.

I vaguely remember renting this game on vacation a long time ago. All I could have told you about it was that it was a flashy looking action game though. Not sure I even got past the first stage. Somehow it did leave enough of an impression that I immediately recognized the title.

I honestly think it's kind of weird that Dan always prioritizes health upgrades, regardless of circumstances. In most games I would consider health like a mid-tier upgrade. It's useful to have a decent amount, but pumping your offense is almost always a higher priority. Dan's insistence on always going for the health upgrades in Yakuza 0 kinda drives me crazy, because the minuscule amount of extra health is garbage next to unlocking new abilities.

I'm always hesitant about going for xp increases. In theory it sounds good, but in a lot of games you end up breaking the balance, or in cases of games like Fallout where you have limited perks and you'll hit the level cap regardless it's just a waste to spend it on extra xp gain. Although stacking high intelligence for more skillpoints is similar in practice and I definitely did that with like every character.

Ha.. " I gave it a low 70"... well...then obviously you don't actually think its a B game. I would accept anything 75 and up to be a B game, but.. if you gave it a C - score.. than.. I just don't quite understand how or why you would want to call it a B game.

@sluggdiddy: The definition of a B-game has nothing to do with review scores. By that logic, Mass Effect Andromeda would be a B or C game.

I feel like I may have misunderstood the intent of this series...

next level descriptioning there abby

Am I a B-game?

We are all B-games in our own ways.

I love this series. Never heard of this game.

@hulksmash: wow, bravo. This, this is what I come to the comments for, thank you.

I dunno looks like a C game to me guyyyyyyyys

@tikicobra: A game trying to be an AAA game (mass effect) can not be a B game. I get what you are saying, I just disagree. Score isn't the end all, you can be a B game that gets an A score. I don't think you can be a B game and get a sub 75 score..At least what I consider a B game, which is a game that doesn't have a AAA budget, doesn't spend millions on marketing, is just a solid game at its heart that may have some issues in some aspects (it may look great, but have clunky controls, it may play great but not look top notch, it may have a really bad story but be fun, maybe it has frustrating controls but the story pulls you through it...etc etc etc). I just think that there has to be a score cut off on the low end, if you aren't willing to give it a score between 75 and 100.. then I don't think it can count as a B game for you.. It may be a B game to someone else.. BUt I don't think you can personally call something a B game for the purposes of this show.. and not given it a score of 75 or above. With all that said.. It doesn't really matter. There are soooo many B games out there, I just question the desire to stretch the definition of a B game to include a game that the person suggesting gave it a low C. Seems silly to me, and I love alex so its not a personally attack against him .

@sluggdiddy: I think you're placing too much value on your personal review scale. A 7/10 can be considered a perfectly respectable score by many people.

By Giant Bomb's review scale a 3/5 would definitely qualify as a solid, but not amazing, game held back by some noteable flaws, and that would translate to around a 6/10. (7/10 at best if you want to push it.)

Abby never existed... right Abby?

@sluggdiddy: You're placing way too much on the backs of review scores. Given that the feature is kind of about the nebulous nature of what makes a B-game, trying to apply a hard cut off seems really not in the spirit of things. I think if any of the GB crew says "we were going to play this game, but then we read that it was only a 74," then they've messed up.

@hulksmash: I'm very impressed

I think this is a perfect B-Game; relatively unknown/almost no marketing, looks like a Devil May Cry rip off if you squint a bit, seems like a solid 3/5 kinda game, and probably retailed for $40 or so.

Good call, Alex. Fits my definition almost perfectly.

THIS is a B game.

@manga53: I am not talking about review score as in.. the official reviews from a publication. It just so happens that Alex reviewed it officially, but I assume that is his "personal" feelings on the game put to a number scale. For the record, I bring it up not as a "how dare you!" but just as a way to say..hey, it doesn't matter but still i disagree with Alex's interpretation of what counts as a B-game in this instance because when scoring the game he did not give it a B and I think one aspect of what qualifies a B game in my personal opinion is that you would personally score it near (75) or above a B. Maybe I will be influenced to feel differently as the comments fill up with other people's opinions... maybe I won't be. I will certainty still play and enjoy some games that I would personally score it below a 75.. But I wouldn't consider them a B-game. I think people are assuming that there are AAA games, B-games, and bad games.. I don't think that is true. Anyways, just rambling at this point.

@sluggdiddy: Apart from what folks have already said regarding review scores not factoring into the decision making here (they very much do not), a key thing you're forgetting is that GS did not score on the academic scale. 7 games were always considered "good".

@zeik: I am talking about personal review scores... so if someone feels like a game is a 8/10 and I think it is a 5/10.. They could consider that a B game without objection from me. I am saying that if you think the game is a low 70.. I don't know why you'd consider it a B game. Basically I am saying there is an objective and subjective component to what a person can consider a B game. The objective part would be things like the game isn't completely broken and didn't have a AAA budget and/or staff. The subjective part would be that if you had to score it on a 100 point scale (or 10 point scale that allowed for decimals) that you gave it above a 75. A game can be fun and enjoyable at a 70 but I wouldn't consider that a B game. And below that.. a game can still be fun but just not "good".

This is just my feelings on the topic, obviously it doesn't matter and as I mentioned in another comment, maybe other people's opinions may sway mine in the future.

Alex's GameSpot review (currently sitting at 233 upvotes due to this stream....)

Most of the time I'm with Dan, but the increases in Yakuza 0 are so small they aren't worth it until the amount of money is trivial to earn back (especially as you can spam health items in battle if needed).

The B in B game has nothing to do with quality. The B does not stand for B Grade. It's entirely about budget.

@sluggdiddy: I think you're obsessing far too much over arbitrary and relative insignificant numbers. Is there really that much difference between a 70 and a 75 game? That's a mere 5 points in a 100 point scale.

Review scores have never been an exact science, despite how much some people have tried to make it seem over the years. Review scores are largely arbitrary numbers attached to feelings. The more incremental you get with those numbers the more arbitrary they get. I think that's a big reason Giant Bomb gave up Gamespot's 100 point scale in favor of a more straightforward 5 point scale. It's incredibly hard to define the difference between a 70 and 75 game, but it's a lot easier to feel the difference between a 3/5 and 4/5 game.

I think Dan was impressed by Alex's moves! I think the opening cut scene is recorded of whatever you do, then played back with credits overlaid :O

Unless the game is real hard at the start i'm not going to put points into health at first. Most games nowadays are designed to be pretty easy early on , so i rather upgrade other stats.

If you're not near death, a point in health is wasted.

I think the tutorial-voice man also voices Uther the Lightbringer...

It doesn't surprise me at all Dan would want to star in a Deception/Trapt game.

I used to be a HP guy, until my third Dark Souls 1 playthrough. Straight out of the gate, I got busy accumulating about 15-20k of souls in a half-hour or so and put it all into strength. I smashed through a bunch of bosses, rang the bells, and reached Anor Londo in under three hours; it felt so right.

Nioh didn't work that way for me. I found balancing my stats much more important than other games -- magic, spirit, and skill were all as vital as each other in my opinion, so I couldn't apply my Souls method much at all. I got my strength up to eleven and never touched it again. Dex the same. It depends.

So it does sound like Alex will be on the drive BACK to SF with Jeff. Too bad Jeff is going solo this year. Us Mixlr peeps will keep him company though.

Burninated!!

Yes this is absolutely a B game, I fully understand Alex's criteria and pick of this game. I still have no idea what Dan's criteria for a B game is, it seems to constantly fluctuate and make little sense.

I used to love this game. Its fun and simple and I suggest people give it a try. Alex didnt bother with some of the more important mechanics at all, so keep in mind you can fly/glide and wall run at any time. Some of the stages are very vertical.

On the subject of what is or isnt a B game, my 2 cents is that I dont care either way and this conversation is going to drive me bonkers. At least this episode was dominated by the subject like the previous one was.

@danryckert- 12:00 - it's pronounced E-po-na not Ep-o-na

Does Abby's contract stipulate no on camera time?

As a young-in I was super into Gackt. I played the hell out of this game. In fact my passwords for the longest time were gackt and gackt1. Same era I was burning cds with Japanese wrestlers entrance themes on them.
This game was surprisingly fun.

she's been on camera, but she's running the stream from the back so that vinny isn't forced to anymore.

@doncabesa:

she's been on camera, but she's running the stream from the back so that vinny isn't forced to anymore.

Nice, ultra quick reply...I havent seen her yet....so I'll take your word for it...Vinny and Jason (still) appear(ed) on cam when working as producers though

@kid_gloves: Anything he doesn't like/think is good seems to be B or "sub b"

Going to 4:3 after you've already been playing in 16:9 is like drinking hard alcohol after beer.

Then again, this is coming from a guy who's playing Earthbound on SNES in 16:9.

One of the past few Beast Friday shows has her on playing various local multiplayer games with the others if you want to see here on camera.

Let's see if anyone mentions Malice Mizer at all...

Edit: nope.

Gackt became famous as the vocalist for the Japanese visual-kei band Malice Mizer.

He left in 1999 to go solo, and did stuff like Bujingai.

I didn't remember this game AT ALL until the Gackt fact came up, and now I definitely remember hearing about this game solely because it starred this guy.

I always wanted to play this game but now I can just watch my dream team play it instead yay!

@lawl3rbawl3r: naw he's right.

@zeik: Its not a life consuming point of contention I am having over this. They are themselves debating what a B tier game and I am saying.. this is what I think it is. In doing that I think you have to kind of draw some lines, which yes, in the grand scheme are arbitrary. I am saying that if you want to define something you have to be as specific as you can, and I gave the standards I'd use to figure out if a game is a B game. You need to think the game is at least decent over all, functional, not a AAA budget or a AAA sized dev team, etc etc. I think a B game means that its at least a little above average. People spend their lives learning in terms of percent out of 100, I think its a helpful measure in various aspects of life. anyways I expanded it to things that would get a mid C score because I feel that over all a B tier game might just be average ( 75 ) but gives it the title of a b game is if there is an aspect that stands out. And the score I am talking about is the one you are giving it personally, not that some publication is putting out there or something, so that I am saying I know the scoring aspect of it is in large part subjective and going to change with each person who is assessing the game. never did I think this would get all these dang comments. It was mostly just a ribbing of alex because its a little to me funny to hear him say he scored this game a low c while calling it a B tier game.

Can I suggest Chaos Legion. A definite PS2 B-game that astounded and confused me as a kid, but has never left my memory as something that was badass to the core

Man, this game looks like a proto-Xbox-era Ninja Gaiden. Maybe that is also objectionable and overly simplistic, but I have dreams of not-great-camera work on a third person action game.

Also - not sure if this is the forum to submit an opinion on a potential B game, but here goes: Warhammer 40k Space Marine.

Wow I forgot about Chaos Legion.

I have never heard of Bujingai.