After a violent death by an unknown force and a timely reanimation by the human supremacist organization Cerberus, Commander Shepard must assemble a new squad in the seedier side of the galaxy for a suicide mission in the second installment of the "Mass Effect" trilogy.
I like Morinth and I wish you could recruit her on Samara's recruitment mission instead of her loyalty mission, killing a squad mate bothers me and even renegade Shepard wouldn't do that. So I thought I wouldn't do Samara's loyalty mission and then kill off her on suicide mission, that way Morinth is free from her mother and my hands remain clean. Anyone know where should I send her to make sure she is the only one that dies.
Put her in the vents instead of Tali or Legion. Then pick somebody not suited to lead a squad. The person in the vent gets killed if you pick a bad squad leader, regardless of who's in there.
@Abyssfull: Morinth is lesser evil. If I had true choice in the game I would shoot Samara the second I saw her, killing wounded, defenseless asari isn't exactly just. But this will have to do.
Edit: I would shoot the Morinth too, but at least I can feel sorry for her when I find out about her past.
Edit2: Not to mention psychopathic murderer with sex as a weapon of choice, is more fitting with the tone of the second game. After all it's about recruiting the best, strongest, most ruthless people who can do the job no matter what. I would choose her every time, if not for the murdering squad mate part.
" Also I think you're putting too much thought into your Mass Effect choices. "
I personally think it's awesome that this medium is making someone think this hard. Even if the thinking seems to revolve around weird plotting to kill someone off intentionally without pulling the trigger which is kind of odd.
@XII_Sniper: The one she killed when you entered was disarmed, therefore defenseless. If you ask me, Samara is just religious extremist and that is the worst kind of people.
@liudvikast: She gave the merc a choice and the merc chose the wrong one. Plus I don't see how being a religious extremist is any better than a lying, manipulating bitch that literally gets off on killing people. At least with Samara, you know where she stands.
@NinjaHunter: That wasn't a choice, it's the same choice as you choosing to give all your money to the mugger because he's pointing a gun at you. I have special place of hate for people who use some ancient religious text to justify their actions, no matter what. She was ready to murder the shit out of all the police officers who tried to stop her escaping their custody, because her code said it's ok.
" @NinjaHunter: That wasn't a choice, it's the same choice as you choosing to give all your money to the mugger because he's pointing a gun at you. I have special place of hate for people who use some ancient religious text to justify their actions, no matter what. She was ready to murder the shit out of all the police officers who tried to stop her escaping their custody, because her code said it's ok. "
@Enigma777: No, it's not simple as that. Proper law enforcement officers can only use deadly force if their or some one else life is in danger. The merc was disarmed so there was no such case. As Samara is not a law enforcement officer, it would be even harder to prove her deadly force was necessary, even if it was.
@liudvikast: The law of the (galactic?) police is not the only law, nor is it the ultimate law. Hell even Specters are above it and answer directly to the Council. The Justicars have their own law and it's pretty simple: if you break their code, you die. Don't wanna die? Don't break the code. It's black an white with no shades of gray, and frankly, I think it's a breath of fresh air. No pesky bureaucratic hoops to jump through and no loopholes the criminals can use (like claiming insanity -- biggest BS practice ever!).
Samara isn't the one who made the merc commit evil acts. The woman brought it on herself. I'm sure the universe will be better off without her.
I find it funny how you made the argument about a ruthless person being more 'fitting to the tone of the game' but now disagree with the severity with which Samara chooses to uphold her code
" @Enigma777: No, it's not simple as that. Proper law enforcement officers can only use deadly force if their or some one else life is in danger. The merc was disarmed so there was no such case. As Samara is not a law enforcement officer, it would be even harder to prove her deadly force was necessary, even if it was. "
Wait a minute. You criticize Samara's code as a justicar but you want us to help you strategically kill her off so you can have Morinth freed from her clutches? Morinth lures innocent victims into hers and then brutally mind fucks them! I don't know I think I would take the quick death of a Justicar over the painful agony of an Ardat-Yakshi.
The code of the Justicar is a code ever Asari knows. Stay out a justicar's way and you have nothing to worry about. Besides the Justicars are no different from the SPECTRE's in my opinion. They stand above standard galactic laws. But the way you speak I suppose you turned down the offer to become a SPECTRE again? Hm?
@Enigma777: Spectres may be above the normal law, but they still answer to the council. Justicars answer to no one and that is dangerous. Claiming insanity is a very rare practice, because getting locked up in a mental facility is worse than spending time in jail.
@PhatSeeJay: Bible is a book every human knows, doesn't mean I'd want to be stoned for blasphemy or working on sunday or any other stupid biblical law. They don't stand above the law, no legal body has appointed them to be protectors of the universe. They are simple vigilantes traveling around the galaxy and killing people who look at them wrong. As for the spectres, they still answer to the law, wasn't the whole story of the first game - going after rogue spectre. Council might look the other way, but at least the paragon Shepard still obeys the rules.
So you are setting up an officer of the law to die, and at the same time you are assisting a serial killer in getting away. This is the same outcome you could get by killing Samara on her loyalty mission, without this weird plot to have Samara die at the end of the game. Honestly, I can't blame you for not liking Samara, because I know I didn't. Now this is just my point of view, but sense you are playing and thinking on this metagame sort of level wouldn't it make more sense to just kill Samara during the loyalty mission and have Morinth take her place. I mean, Shepard kill her both ways, really. He can gun her down or he can assign her to a role that he knows she isn't cut out for and be the one that sends her to her death. And because you are Shepard, your decisions are his decisions.
Also, by having Morinth on the ship you can talk to her more and actually have a character you like around. I think it is also important to note that since she is on the ship with you then she isn't out killing random innocent people. Which I think is a much better outcome then you set up Samara to die and Morinth keeps on doing her thing and people continue to get killed. It is the only way Morinth can truly be free of her mother, because after the death of her mother another Justicar could end up trying to track her down. Or maybe another law enforcement agency. That isn't really being free. However, no one would fuck with you if they thought you were a Justicar.
@IBurningStar:Problem with that is, that I would need to kill a squad member and that is a big no-no. As for Samara killed on loyalty mission, it just bad luck on her part and good luck on Morinths part.
@PhatSeeJay: Bible is a book every human knows, doesn't mean I'd want to be stoned for blasphemy or working on sunday or any other stupid biblical law. They don't stand above the law, no legal body has appointed them to be protectors of the universe. They are simple vigilantes traveling around the galaxy and killing people who look at them wrong. As for the spectres, they still answer to the law, wasn't the whole story of the first game - going after rogue spectre. Council might look the other way, but at least the paragon Shepard still obeys the rules. "
In ME1 he had to struggle pretty damned hard to prove that Saren's activities were anything but in the interest of the Council. And just because you can be a "nice" Spectre in ME1 doesn't mean that all Spectres are. A renegade Shepard could go about killing people left and right and while not appreciated by the Council, they still approved because the job was done. If a Justicar go about doing things that's not approved by the 5000 various codes, surely another justicar would appoint herself to deal with it just like Shepard was ordered to do with Saren once he became a Spectre.
Also how would you know what exactly you'd get killed for in the codes? She doesn't kill people who look at her the wrong way, that's just the way you see it because you don't like that killing someone would be the answer to whatever crimes they've done. Besides. The ones she killed in this small sequence we've seen her work, were a red sand dealing group guilty of smuggling an ardat-yakshi so don't go around saying they were punished for nothing. You killed a hell of a lot more of them on your way in and you have no idea how much of a fight they put up to Samara before you got there.
" @XII_Sniper: The one she killed when you entered was disarmed, therefore defenseless. If you ask me, Samara is just religious extremist and that is the worst kind of people. "
The one she killed was an Asari, all Asari have Biotics and therefore she was in no way defenceless. You seem to be stuck on the fact that the Justicar code is almost like a belief system but I don't see you trying to kill Thane on his belief that he is just a weapon. Or what about Garrus' belief that once you cross the line you should be punished and by Mass Effect 2 he has become Judge Dredd in space minus the Fascism.) Garrus = Judge Dredd in Space minus the Fascism
" @XII_Sniper: The one she killed when you entered was disarmed, therefore defenseless. If you ask me, Samara is just religious extremist and that is the worst kind of people. "
The one she killed was an Asari, all Asari have Biotics and therefore she was in no way defenceless. You seem to be stuck on the fact that the Justicar code is almost like a belief system but I don't see you trying to kill Thane on his belief that he is just a weapon. Or what about Garrus' belief that once you cross the line you should be punished and by Mass Effect 2 he has become Judge Dredd in space minus the Fascism.) Garrus = Judge Dredd in Space minus the Fascism "
Yeah, that and the fact that all Eclipse mercenaries at least under that lady had to kill someone to join. Thus they're all murderers, armed with biotics. Anyone would perceive that as a threat to eliminate as soon as possible.
Sounds like you need to separate your hatred of religious people from characters in a video game that are just there to further illustrate the paragon or renegade nature of your choices.
@PhatSeeJay: She was ready to kill proper law enforcement officers, that says a lot of her stupid code. What I don't like about her is zero mental process, only zealous adhering to the code. Smuggling isn't exactly a crime punishable by death, not to mention she's not a proper judge.
@XII_Sniper: No law enforcement works with a motto: kill on sight.
@damswedon:
Irrelevant, she was on her back, in a defensive position. And if mass effect universe was reality, the only members of my squad that I would trust would be Tali and Legion. Perhaps also Kasumi. Garrus isn't really a law abiding citizen, but at least he's predictable and trust Shepard, so I could shape him. Difference between Thane and Samara is that at least Thane has no delusions of righteousness for me there is nothing worse than murderer who thinks he did the right thing. As long as murderer is aware that he did commit murder and not some justified killing, then he is always redeemable.
@sodapop7:
It's not hatred of religious people, it's hatred of religious extremism.
Anyways bioware has made a wonderful game, as always, with great moral choices. When the scene came when I had to choose Morinth or Samara, I froze with awe. Morinth was a sociopath, but I still felt sympathy for her. The same thing happened in KOTOR, after the big reveal I turned to the dark side, even though I played light side all the game. Such betrayal on Jedi part cannot be forgiven.
@liudvikast: The thing that's most interesting about this whole situation is not that fact that you dislike Samara because sure why not that's your opinion and I can kind of see the religious extremist angle. But It's the fact that you want to keep Morinth alive. I mean wouldn't you want both of them dead?
" @Enigma777: Spectres may be above the normal law, but they still answer to the council. Justicars answer to no one and that is dangerous. Claiming insanity is a very rare practice, because getting locked up in a mental facility is worse than spending time in jail. "
Justicars follow the code, which is a constant and can thus always be accounted for, spectres may answer to the council but that same council can change their stance on things in the blink of an eye.. If a spectre deems it necessary to kill an entire village of innocent people to save an entire planet he will probably do so, I don't think the asari justicar would...
@Paulus: But the code is not an accepted form of law. Spectres on the other hand act as a legal branch of law enforcement. A faulty law enforcement, but still one sanctioned by the law, unlike the Justicars.
@liudvikast: I've been trying to figure out what it is that bothers me so much about your distaste for Samara and I think I've found it. I find that your assertion of Samara as a religious extremist is flat out wrong. The Justicar Code is not a religion. True, it is a set of rules that govern how one lives their life, but there is no worship of any kind, and I can't think of any religion in which worship is not an important aspect.
Also Justicars are an accepted form of law enforcement within Asari culture.
" @Paulus: But the code is not an accepted form of law. Spectres on the other hand act as a legal branch of law enforcement. A faulty law enforcement, but still one sanctioned by the law, unlike the Justicars. "
So as long as you're acting under the guise of "the law" your actions are justified? oO
" @Paulus: But the code is not an accepted form of law. Spectres on the other hand act as a legal branch of law enforcement. A faulty law enforcement, but still one sanctioned by the law, unlike the Justicars. "
The Terminus Systems do not fall under the law of Citadel space. Moreover, Omega specifically has no government or law whatsoever. Shepard's actions the entire second game are not sanctioned by the law, involve Shepard killing hundreds to complete the mission, and in fact Shepard is working for a known terrorist group.
The entire point of the second game is to show you that Good is not Nice.
@themightymonarch: Religiosity is not a worship of god, it is mindset of obeying some arbitrary rules. Why have proper Asari law enforcement then? I doubt all Asari agree that Justicars are doing the right thing. Not to mention that Asari culture is just one part of galactic society, they have no right to impose such laws.
@liudvikast: Justicars deal with the things that normal Asari law enforcement can't handle, which is why they typically don't operate outside of Asari space. Illium is a planet controlled by Asari corporate interests, not the Council, therefore Samara is well within her rights as a Justicar to act as she sees fit. Omega is outside the jurisdiction of the Council as well and the only law seems to be might makes right. Samara isn't breaking any laws in Council controlled space.
And I wouldn't call the Code arbitrary. Asari don't just decide to become Justicars they have to train and most of them don't make it. You're right that the Asari are only one part of galactic society, but like it or not, right or not, Justicars are revered among the Asari and if the Council can do anything to stop them, which I doubt, they haven't.
" @SethPhotopoulos: 1. She does not rape people. All those people consent to sex. 2. Samara murders people too. "
!. I'm sure she still counts as a sexual predator. 2. At least Samara murders people who go against the law and not grabbing people off the street then murdering them for fun. Destroying families, lives, and futures because she's fucking bored.
@SethPhotopoulos: Samara did not kill that innocent cop just because Shepard found the name of the ship. I bet she killed a lot of innocent people in her quest.
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