What Makes a Boss Fight Fun for You?

Challenging? Epic? Ease? Simple? Complicated? What makes a boss fight fun for you as a player?

I recently beat Shadow of the Colossus, currently playing A Link to the Past and been thinking about the Arkham series with the new release coming tomorrow and the thought of boss battles has been on my mind lately in what makes it fun and enjoyable to me. Now that is all Shadow of the Colossus is, boss battles. Some hit and I absolutely loved and some missed and found tedious and annoying. Same as A Link to the Past where some where a hell of a lot of fun and challenging and some were just annoying as hell. Where the Arkham series it was the biggest flaw in Asylum. City's bosses were a little better but I don't remember them fondly except for the ending Clayface fight.

And for me the boss just has to be fun more than anything. Challenging or simple doesn't matter, as long as I can understand what I need to do and can execute without too much aggravation. I find that the bosses that annoyed me the most in ALttP are the ones that killed me and then I had to start from the beginning and work my way back, the execution in the fights are were I ran into the problem and then the penalty for death. Blind the Thief is the real arch nemesis of the game to me.

SotC was opposite, the penalty of death was really non existent except (spawn back at the beginning of the boss battle, right?) and what I ran into was the boss was either hard to execute what needed to be done and thus frustrating as I bang my head against the wall. Number 9 was this for me as getting him over the geysers was a pain and it took me 30 minutes to end up on his back because the flip would fuck me up. It was tedious annoying and really easy once I got on the shell.

Just some thoughts on boss battles. What makes or breaks these landmark moments in games for you?

RPG boss - Constantly having to do multiple jobs, buffing, debuffing, healing, curing, damaging etc.

3D hack and slash - Equal ability boss AKA DMC3 Vergil. Both player and boss have low health, both capable of great damage, causing stun animations and similar stats

General 3rd person action - Metal Gear Solid style bosses.

The older I get, the less and less I like games with boss fights. I don't think there is a such a thing as a good or fun boss fight.

I love boss fights. I think that's why I love Platinum's stuff because they understand what makes a good fight. I'm a big fan of the hero vs their nemesis face-offs. I'm also a big fan of giant multi phase stuff in shooters. Treasure fully understand how to do great bosses in the same way Platinum do.

Challenge for the most part, but there are a few exceptions like The End and there's something to be said for cinematic value a la Shagohad/Volgin. Playing Shadow of the Colossus as well, most of the first few bosses were really tedious but they've gradually been getting better; it still doesn't even remotely compare to Dark Souls though because there is no threat of dying whatsoever. DMC has a handful of really good boss fights and a lot of mediocrity, Bayonetta has mostly excellent boss fights. Vagrant Story has a ton of fantastic and almost incomparable bosses including the last boss which is absolutely the biggest fish and vastly superior to every other boss in every other game ever. Super Metroid has awesome bosses but too few, that's really the only problem with the game. Valkyrie Profile 2 has some amount of puzzling to the bosses if you don't brute force them while still having an action/coordination element which is really neat. Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 have some of the best first person bosses alongside Radec from Killzone 2, the last boss in Vanquish is superb.

The best ones are ones that provide variety from the rest of the game, like The End, or Mr. Freeze from Arkham City.

The best boss fights are the ones that make you think and pull out all of the stops to defeat them.

metal gear rising's boss was a collection of music, scale and cinematics elaborating the bosses' insanity. They were gimmicks but very enjoyable gimmicks.

I think a boss fight is fun if it makes me do things I did in the game up to that point in ways I haven't thought of. I don't like most of the 3D Zelda boss fights where you do exactly what you do in the dungeon, 3 times. The kind of fail state I like is the one that makes me think mostly about my approach rather than the execution or patience (unless patience is part of the boss fight, like The End). It's not fun when I feel like I just have to bang my head against the wall until it breaks. Big Daddies in Bioshock didn't really work for me because you just have to shoot it until it dies, and I'm allowed to fail with no retrospection.

I enjoy bosses that are kind of like a puzzle to figure out, but it really depends on the game. Some games it's just a challenge. Some it's just the pure epicness of it. (Or whatever other emotions they can evoke.)

I just destroyed Ornstein and Smough in Dark Souls after they absolutely slaughtered me the first time around. The fight was a drawn-out, (but not too drawn-out) super-intense, beautiful dance of death. That's what a boss fight should be.

Basically what @flstyle said.

The boss fights in DmC were ok, though specifically the last one with Vergil since it allowed me to really put my proficiency with Dante's move set and controller dexterity to the test, and concentrated less on pattern recognition and trial and error, which I find to be tedious and boring most the time. I'm not really a fan of them in general though, since most of them essentially discard the core of the gameplay to that point in exchange for "wait for move, dodge/run and hit/shoot glowy 'kill me' spot" over and over. I guess I'm more fond of it being based on 'action' rather than 'reaction' in most cases.

RPG's bosses tend to be more fun for me in that way. Ironically, they seem to be more frenetic than most action focused games, in my opinion. I'll never forget bringing down Firkraag in BG2 at 3am. Probably woke the neighborhood.

Style would be the best word for it I guess? As long as I feel cool playing the fight and get pulled into the experience then I can be satisfied with a boss. When a combination of aesthetics, music, and gameplay all come together into a brilliant package. This includes challenging bosses too by the way. Love me some Ornstein & Smough.

I know what doesn't make them fun. Bigger versions of normal things with more health is usually a cop-out. Insta-kill moves used by a boss are rarely handled well (I just really hate insta-death). Giant glowy weak points is played out to the max at this point in the history of video games.

I really enjoy having choices in a boss fight. Being able to convince certain bosses in the Fallout series not to fight (or even to commit suicide) depending on your persuasive ability was a neat thing to strive for. MGS has had a slew of interesting approaches to boss fights, as well.

Fuck you, you just reminded me that my copy of Shadow of the Colossus is currently missing :/

I like intricate bosses. Like multiple stages that build on prior stages and incorporate a few more mechanics. I like the difficulty to range from failing maybe a couple times, to not ridiculously frustrating (a la smough and ornstein in hollowed form).

Cool scenery and a cool look to the boss certainly make all the difference in the world. I usually enjoy the final stage in most Castlevania games and the fights themselves. For RPG bosses I prefer multiple mechanics, but ones not too confusing.

Also in earlier DMC games I found the boss fights very challenging and very rewarding to beat, while with DmC on hard I found them kind of push-overs. Many of them looked cool but were ultimately forgettable.

I'd say fun might not be the best metric for all boss fights. The Black Knight is a pain in the ass, but the fight against him is still one of the best parts of Path of Radiance.

I think "satisfaction" is a better word than "fun".

If anything, a good boss should be a test of the skills that you have learned up to that point in the game. It's not just "a monster with a bigger health bar than the rest of the monsters", it's a challenge of your mastery of the mechanics.

Nyx in Persona 3 was a really good boss. At level 75, I had to pull out everything I had to beat it, and it managed to stay interesting for the whole two hours or so that I spent fighting it.

I'd say "quality" would be the better term of these three, since it allows for those two and more.

Oh god, I'm vaguely remembering this one boss that was disappointing to many players because it was too easy for where you were in the story, but still fit into that story nonetheless. Then again, given how vague that is, I may be pulling it out of my ass.

I like a good boss fight the same way I like a good puzzle, you have to figure it out and when you do, it feels very rewarding, the bonus is that it's a real time fight and bosses are usually bigger/better and badass music plays so that sets a certain epic atmosphere as well. If I don't get any of this from the boss than I don't enjoy the boss fight. I also don't enjoy bosses that are hard just because they are cheap or overtuned. I like bosses that destroy you if you mess up, but you destroy them if you do everything right.

I think of boss fights sort of like tests in school. You learn parts of something specific for a few weeks, then you take a test to show that you've learned it all, and even better (hopefully, if your teacher's good) that you can apply that knowledge in new ways.

In a game, you learn a combo, a technique, a new ability, and then ideally in the boss fight, you get to apply that newly gained whatever in an interesting way, or even better, in multiple possible interesting ways. As, @donutfever said, Mr. Freeze in Arkham City is exactly this. There are things all over that room that allow you to use every gadget and technique you have to defeat him, it's a test to prove what you've learned so far in the game, and you can apply that knowledge creatively how you want to.

The worst are the ones where you see the pattern, then do it three (or, gasp... more than three) times the same way every time. Because once you've figured the pattern out, you've already done the creative work. So unless the platforming/combat is intrinsically fun, beating the boss becomes painfully tedious.

I don't want a boss fight to be an absurd spike in difficulty over regular combat. A level/mission/whatever should build to something interesting and unique.

I would say bosses that flip standard gameplay mechanics usually are the most memorable. Everyone who has ever played MGS will probably always remember Psycho Mantis because of how interesting that fight is.

I think the final fight with Saren in the first Mass Effect game is so interesting specifically because of the dialog options — not the "Shoot this dude" sequences. Same thing with the Illusive Man in ME3.

basically what @believer258: said

A good Boss fight is tense, with lots of Back and Forth action. Like a really close playoff game in Sports. It shouldn't introduce entirely brand new game mechanics (which too many do), rather take what you've already learned and pushes you to the next level of that. They should make you think strategically and make you execute with skill.

Maybe throw in some gee whiz special effects and sett pieces, and pumpin music to keep the tension and adrenaline up.

They also shouldn't be too long. A boss fight that goes on past 45 minutes starts to get really tedious and feels especially terrible if you fail. They also shouldn't be too short, something you can blow through or one hit kill a boss feels cheap and uneventful

I would agree with a lot of what others have stated, but from a last boss stand point i actually would be good with a nice 2 minute cut scene. I know i probably sent 99.9% of gamers into convulsion, but im tired of playing hours and hours of a game leveling up and when you get to the end none of it matters. I understand he is the boss but sometimes, dont get me started on the rule of 3, they are always way overpowered and it takes away a lot of the fun i had getting to the end. I always play games on the hardest setting so that doesnt help, but doesnt change my view. Just a few examples, Assasins Creed, Mass Effect 2, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2(im sensing a pattern here), God of war(pick one), Gears of war, etc. ugh, starting to remember those battles, yea cut scenes would be a nice choice at the end. Damn video games.

Either a good sense of spectacle like the boss fight in FFX when your fighting Sin on the top of the airship for example or a tense combat puzzle like the boss fights in Dark Souls. A good score to go a long with it goes a long way as well.

The worst thing you can do for a boss fight is change the core mechanics. Boss fights should just build off of what you have been doing before the boss fight just more challenging. It's why Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in Dark Souls.

It's one of the best parts maybe from a story perspective (although that's kind of undercut when he says "I was going easy on you" in Radiant Dawn) but in order to actually achieve success you've cheesed the hell out of him by maxing out Ike's level with BXP and hoping that aether would activate a handful of times in a row, all for the rather underwhelming reward of a sort of bad unit instead of an irredeemably terrible one.

As for what makes a boss fun? The amount of crazy going on. It's why Dark Souls does it so well, when you're fighting nightmare fuel monsters like the Gaping Dragon or even the deadly tag-team of Smough and Ornstein.

Nup I definitely agree with you. I think MGS (mosly 3) is the blueprint for good boss fights.

It's easier to list a few of my favorite boss fights.

-The Ice Titan in Kingdom Hearts

-Lavos Chrono Trigger

-Rikku inside Hollow Bastion in Kingdom Hearts

-The Drake and The Golem in Dragon's Dogma

-Liquid Ocelot in MGS 4

-High Dragon Dragon Age Origins

Interesting mechanics and design. It should challenge your skill at the game but shouldn't be cheap bullshit.

My most memorable boss fight in the last few years has gotta be Smough and Ornestien from Dark Souls. (i probably butchered his name but fuck it). I did it by myself like every boss my first playthrough, it took me like 2 hours of just constantly retrying before i finally got him. I leaped out of my chair and yelled at my TV i was so happy. It was super hard and challenging, but never felt unfair.

I used to play alot of JRPG's and i can't really think of a single boss from a JRPG that didn't feel grindy, drawn out and just annoying. Even in the almost universally loved around here Persona 4 all the boss fights are just BORING.

I should be thinking "Fuck yeah! i got him!" when i beat your boss. Not "Ugh, thank god thats over..."

You know what, this is a fantastic question and something I've never actually thought much about.

I'm one of those people that doesn't hugely enjoy boss fights I must admit, but it's usually due to either trial and error frustration or being too drawn out.

I especially can't stand multiple life bars or recharging when about to die mechanic so prevalent in a lot of games.

My personal favourite boss fights, I think, are those ones where you feel like the boss is bound by the same rules as you are (in terms of the world), even if they are vastly more powerful or whatnot.

If that evil wizard is casting time stop and meteor and magic missile and whatnot and absolutely destroying my party, at least I know that I, too, could potentially be casting those spells, and I can counter them.

If I'm a rogue, ninja, or super spy, I should be able to use the same skills I use to stealth around normal enemies to take on the boss. That boss should have a way to counter me, but it should be governed by the established mechanics, not simply because some game designer decided stealth would be disabled.

Does that make sense? I feel like I'm rambling

You've got me on that one. (Skip about 10 minutes in.)

Bosses that make you use all of your skills or have multiple ways of beating them. I don't like when you have to do one very specific thing to win

Challenging, not cheap and not lasting forever.

Depends. I usually like bosses way more when they've got some personality behind them or are at least visually impressive looking. Challenge isn't that big of a deal to me, though it doesn't bum me out either, of course. At least if it isn't something that'll make me rip off my hair...

^ You sir know what I like.

I like boss battles to push my skills and abilities to they're limits, but in the right way. Make me use all my tools, items, spells and gadgets creatively. Don't just lock me in a small room with a monster that can 1 shot me because you can't think of anything better or make me chip at a giant health bar for an hour.

I also like boss battles I can break, either by grinding way to much or exploit with a dumb trick. But these are usually exclusive to RPG Boss battles.

A good show of grinding way to much would be my encounter with Disgaea 3's final unlock able Boss. The dood has more than 4 million health, and I believe he does more than a million damage with a basic attack. And he worked me over. None of my characters at the time could damage him and would die after one attack. So began the grind to end all grinds. I spent weeks grinding and getting neck deep in all the crazy game systems I though I already fully understood. When I was ready to face him again I threw all my best characters at him and 9 fell right away. All I had left was my best guy, who I had hold back so he had room for his biggest attack. I hit him with my strongest attack and did 150 million damage. I dropped my controller and started rolling around on the floor laughing at my sudden unexpected overkill victory.

@morningstar: Decent summation, stuff like Yiazmat is just a ridiculous timesink.

There are a lot of good elements that other people have pointed out, mechanically.

One thing I really love is anticipation, and it's something games tend to be not great at because it involves pacing and writing. It's great when there is a sense that the confrontation has been building up to this and you have an actual reason to want to beat them. A reason other than they are large and standing in front of a door.

Yes! Yiazmat was such a fucking drag. I stopped playing the post-game content because of that fight, and never beat him. Not that I couldn't have, I just got sick of constantly waling on him and watching his HP barely drop. Especially since the closer to death he gets, the less damage he takes. It's like Chinese water torture or some shit.

World of Warcraft has the best boss battles. It's all about movement, sequence, timing, coordination, preparation and execution to me. To perfectly execute a dance routine or orchestral track, so to speak. Also - being rewarded with meaningful stuff, like new abilities, iconic gear, achievements. Payoff is important.

Singleplayer games-wise, any boss fights that can evoke similar challenges and feelings as a good World of Warcraft bossfight are memorable to me - games like Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls come to mind.

Feeling utterly overwhelmed and dying a lot is definitely part of the process of a really good bossfight.

Examples:

• Kael'thas Sunstrider (WoW Burning Crusade)
• Awakened Daimon (Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen)

Bosses that actually feel like the climax of the game or who are at the same height and skill level as the hero.

Being able to damage them all the time, not only at key points.

Dealing damage to them in the normal way.

Speed is important, gotta be moving all the time or you get fucked.

Some of my favourite fights are the Dark Soul's bosses, Ninja Gaiden bosses and especially every fight ever in Dragon's Dogma. Grigori and Daimon are probably my favourite fights of all time.

It's really interesting looking at how the boss fights were handled in Arkham City because, in my opinion, you get to see Rocksteady reflecting on the core elements of the franchise.

Spoilers for Arkham City:

I may forget a boss or two. The Clayface boss takes the freeflow group combat and contextualizes a crowd as a singular villain. This was neat in concept but in execution they focus a bit too much on style. While Batman slicing Clayface up with a sword sounds and looks cool it lacks the same punch and weight that you grow accustomed to the whole game so you have to readjust your senses just a bit. More so you end up with some special moves with the sword that don't have any analogues to your well known ones. The fight finds itself in a fixed perspective that comes straight out the Poison Ivy fight in Asylum. You have to adjust to a bunch of small yet significant changes while losing access to all your other gadgets and moves. It's not a bad boss fight just a bit lacking.

The Ra's fight is unintentionally silly, nonsensical, and I kind of love it. It mixes in timing and dodging then switching to some freeflow fighting against a bunch of Ra's. The execution of the quick time events is well done and contextualized in the idea that you're countering takes the focus off the fact that it's a quick time event. Just the way the sword strikes ramp up so quickly. When the bunch of Ra's jump in the air the amount of time given to multi-counter is tuned so well that each time your unsure if you'll have time for the last one or two. It's not really a stand out or memorable boss but it blends style and function admirably for what it is.

The Mr Freeze fight has already been mentioned because people remember it. You remember it because it's fantastic. It is by far the best boss in the game and it sucks that it comes out of no where and has no bearing on the plot. The way the environment slowly ices over as you exhaust each option and constantly having to move made Freeze a menacing presence in stark contrast to every other predator mission where you could survey the situation by sitting on a single gargoyle forever. There's this sense of mounting tension as Freeze becomes more intimidating throughout the boss fight. Every inch of progress told Freeze more about you. In reality the fight is more of a checklist but it is such a well executed checklist that I can't even fault it.

Checkpoints.

Epic ones but at the end the ones that doesn't have the following things

Calls stupid minions to drive you crazy.

Bosses with no health bars.

Doppelganger Bosses

Doing the same move over and over and over

And finally a good boss fights need epic cut scenes.

Just finished the storymode of blazblue: chronophantasma and while I appreciate that they made a end-boss, it's pretty boring. Just wail on him, defend yourself when he attacks wich push you far away from him and then you've got to run all the way back to him, rinse and repeat. And maybe I'm just bad, but especially one move felt like it was unavoidable. Always kinda felt like every fight in fightinggames feels like a potentially good boss-battle. one on one, equal chance of winning based on skill (well, if it's a balanced fighter) but still different styles and quirks to every character.

I like it when bosses make me think on my feet or just present a really amazing spectacle.

No cheap movies

Epic Music

Moderate Challenge

Battle Dialogue

The use of almost every skill through the game

I honestly dislike 95% of all boss fights. Most of the time they seem cheap - like when you have to kill them multiple times, through multiple stages when most enemies go down after one headshot.

People bemoan QTE's but I'd rather have a really cinematic fight with a boss via QTE's only than chisel away at his immense lifebar for 15 minutes.

I like bosses where you have to learn a pattern and find the right time to attack, or ones that's make you think and use all of your abilities like the Mr. Freeze one.

I'd like the risk of dying to be way higher than normal and for it to require a good bit of strategy.