What happened to Quick Looks (and maybe some other spontaneous formats)?

@taofeld: I think it's really condescending to ask someone to film their entire work week. Imagine walking into any other business on the planet and saying "Hey, I want to know what you do at work all day. Can I film you for 40 hours? I just want to make sure you are actually doing your job.".

@taofeld: imagine doing a South Park style “six days to air”. Would potentially alleviate so much tension if we saw them working hard. Very much doubt it though. Maybe I’m being slavishly overworked at my day job, but, honestly, I somehow doubt GB take a week to prepare for their current output.

Thirty five fucking dollars? Oh man, Imma totally taking you to court GB, because well, I am not happy!

But I will say this, for a number of these posters, it's because they do care about GB.

@bybeach: if it was more than $35, maybe I would consider legal action. Hell, looks like a whole class action suit by the looks of this thread.

I know a lot of us feel that we've invested all this time getting to know these people, so much so that we might get emotional when they leave, but it's a one-way relationship for the most part. If you're not getting what you want or need out of their output, it's okay to just drop them and come back later to see if there's anything worth watching.

Sometimes "friends" just grow apart - think of the sub as a sunk cost and move on. There's a ton of other content out there, including ex-GB people.

@boogot: they are internet dudders. I in no way convince myself they are my friends, but god damn, I’m going to shout “paying customer” over and over until people on this forum understand what the real issue is

Hi @NickM,

I just wanted to thank you for voicing in a reasonable manner what many long time fans of GB have been thinking for years. There is an active community outside of GB, those of us banned and shunned for voicing our concern for the site and characters we've known and enjoyed for a decade. We're watching this thread and rooting for you in support of addressing the plain and obvious state of GB has been in for well over a year, pandemic or not.

As is suggested by the representatives of the site, we've voted with our wallets and long since canceled our memberships. How retaining customers is not a priority and instead actively encouraging them to leave is beyond me, and perhaps part in parcel to the current state of GB, but I digress.

Most people that discuss the state of affairs at GB do not wish for an argument. @NickM has done a fine job of demonstrating this in simply defining observable changes in output and subjective quality. Rational discussion is permitted, constructive criticism is allowed and according to the community guidelines I definitely just reviewed again (Hi Dasa!) expressing ones opinion is not a forbidden activity, though it often times certainly comes across that way. After reading a tomes worth of comments and feedback for years here on the forum, on the GB reddit or across other forums, it's clear most people simply want GB to be successful and utilize their now waning reputation in the games community. The backlash and aggressive response from the loyalists of GB is disheartening to say the least, and a far cry from the community it once was.

Dredging up the same retorts and pointing to the one thing that cannot be substantiated of what happens "behind the scenes" for years on end is a flimsy defense for any number of reasons. It doesn't take much effort to see through the fog of fandom, or that GB has an unfortunate record of pulling the wool over their customers eyes with empty promises of change and what's to come, only to deliver a lackluster effort if any at all. The same excuses peddled for years simply do not hold water and if it's not the one in the playbook today, it will be in a week. Arguing over any of it amounts to a hill of beans when the observable situation presents itself on a daily basis.

Lastly, for anyone that disputes the output in the last several years, the afore mentioned community had a project to compile the hours of video and podcast content created across GB for several years running. Utilizing the API to pull raw data makes simple work of creating analytical reports with any number of dimensions including per hour totals by week/month/year, premium or not, by host, by cast and so on. There is no arguing hard data, and when I say there was a precipitous drop off even when staffed appropriately, the numbers don't lie. When an average work week is 40-50hrs per person, there are hundreds of manhours left on the table with maybe a few hours of output for customers. I'll parrot the obvious sentiment here - can anyone, without absolute fabrication of fact, detail what takes hundreds of hours "behind the scene" per week that keeps this staff so busy? Unlikely, just as I cannot, but it certainly seems odd.

I hope a mod doesn't find this post, nor the thread in general to be committing a GB sin and locked or deleted for arbitrary reasons. This conversation needs to take place and has needed to take place for far too long. Customers want answers and accountability, not empty promises and month after month of carrot dangling for new head count, new shows, new anything. Throwing the bare minimum scraps in the form of a redundant podcast and a Souls playthrough no one asked for is insulting when fans have clamored for the return of other features and favorites.

@NickM - if you're interested, PM me and you can continue the conversation with other likeminded folks.

Thanks for reading,

Mr. Asshat

If anything, I implied I'd like to see how the sausage is made. And there are all kinds of businesses that would be happy to give a tour.

@boogot: I wouldn't say it is a one-way relationship. I think the staff certainly cares about it's audience. It's just that fans can have a much more extreme, often unhealthy, attachment to their fandom.

But as you said, if you feel you aren't getting your money's worth for something, you aren't obligated to pay for it. There is nothing wrong with that. You are not obligated to pay them based on past work, or what might happen in the future. You are not a bad fan for leaving and coming back later. The staff will still get paid by Red Venture. Free members still support the site through ads. This is not a problem that can be solved with money. It's going to take time, and it isn't your duty to pay them for that time if you aren't getting what you need out of it.

@asshat: :D Much appreciated, feel free to send me a PM, I can't PM you unless you follow me. I followed you!

@brian_: Do I, or people in this thread seem overly attached? We aren’t friends. If anything, we are asking for accountability. PAYING CUSTOMERS

@nickm: That was just a generalization of fandom everywhere. I wasn't attaching that to anyone specifically.

I don't doubt that Jeff and co "work hard." It's readily apparent that they do. I think the bigger question is why it's come to this point. I doubt that the site was truly blindsided by the Nextlander crew giving their notice, they likely knew well ahead of time, but even if they didn't it's been three months and they're still short-staffed and don't even seem to be looking for new replacements. I would think this would be a pretty easy job to fill what with the sheer number of people interested in working in the games media industry, so from the outside looking in it seems pretty odd that it's taking as long as it is.

@roadshell: It's just not that easy. Hiring is a process. It can be a long one. Everything in a company just takes way longer to do. If Giant Bomb was independent, I'm sure Jeff could go out tomorrow and be like, "I want this person", and make it happen fairly easy. But that's just not the situation they are in.

@nickm: @brian_: When I did sub in the past, it was because I wanted to support them for the stuff that they were putting out at the time and for any of the archived stuff I could access - almost like a tip jar. The premium content was more of a bonus. When I started losing interest, I was fine letting the subscription lapse - I had the mindset that I kinda already got what I paid for. Just because you have X months left in your paid subscription doesn't mean you're owed that much in the specific content that entertains you. Just try shifting how you view yourself as a paying customer. I doubt there are many people that subscribed to Giant Bomb sight unseen. They likely subscribed after already consuming a lot of content and then deciding that they wanna support these guys. That's why I mentioned earlier that you should think of it as a sunk cost and move on.

I'm sure they're struggling to find ways to entertain an audience while still finding some enjoyment out of it themselves, otherwise they'd only be covering the most popular games on Twitch or whatever. Not everything they do is going to please everyone, the new shows that people seem to hate, a lot of people seem to really like them too - who should they listen to if both groups are paying customers?

@brian_: The point is that I'm not looking at random youtubers and their output. My point is three of the very same people that worked here, with the same equipment can do so much more outside of GB.

They should even have less time without corporate backing as a lot of that stuff was (probably) managed by the HR (kinda like there's more paperwork as a freelancer vs an employee, taxes, insurances and all that) but instead they have probably tripled or quadroupled their output and I think it's high quality.

@bleichman: hallelujah!!!

I think the bottom line on this issue is that a lot of paying subscribers are not happy with the current output at GB, myself included, and are no longer accepting the "times are tough" and wait and see" excuses. Times are tough for everyone on this planet. We are living during this pesky pandemic, but people are finding a way. I'm not going to give a Nextlander comparison as that was been done a lot already. I will simply say that Jeff G took the money. He took the money from RV, a major media company and should have the resources to hit the ground running. And no disrespect, but business is business and whatever personal issues he is dealing with... the show must go on. There are people who are so attached to these personalities, they claim they would support them even if they did nothing, well that is your right, but not everyone is going to blindly give up their money and not get nothing in return, or not getting their money's worth. I'm sure a lot of people want GB to last and to succeeded, which is why people are voicing their concerns now. People often get constructive criticism and not caring confused. People who don't c.are are indifferent. Meaning, they don't care what happens either way. So keep that in mind, before you accuse people of not caring, or wanting to see GB fail. All I've read is people wanting the crew to step it up and stop slacking. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. It's $35-50 a year. If I get a few series a year to watch it's still a good deal for me. May not be for everyone but it is for me.

I agree.

People need to just accept, and it took me a while to do so, that the "glory" days of GB are over. The days of a full house on the west coast and the great new york crew. It's over and it's never coming back. Stop wishing that the couch comes back to the studio. Those days of UPF died when people starting having families and started looking at the clock waiting to go home to said families. I'm not trying to be glib about what other people feel strongly about but guys look at the world around us and look at the video game industry right now.

Re Hiring - Ask yourself this, if you are a video game streamer or if you have an editorial voice in the video game industry, why would you join GB? Anyone who is anyone in this industry either already has their own podcast/twitch channel or they are part of a larger company. Abby, Dan and the nextlander guys proved that if you leave GB you can make a ton more money basically doing literally the same thing you were doing at GB (Sea of thieves streams, State of Decay streams, Truck sim streams, horror game streams etc..etc..).

What money?

You just mentioned how there are varying opinions on their output. You obviously don't like it that's why you said they are slacking, but many people like what they're getting now so they disagree that GB is slacking and they believe that they are getting their money's worth.

Let's say that they finally do things that specifically appeal to you and you are satisfied, I guarantee that a whole different bunch of people will complain that they are being ignored and will hate the new content that you like. That's just how it is.

Maybe they should then hire some young talent that isn't already established like Abby, Dan, and the Nextlander crew now are, don't have families tearing them away, and maybe want a job with heath insurance and a steady paycheck?

What surprised me the most about everything is that they're not hiring. No open positions whatsoever. That's so weird. :/

@av_gamer: well said

the flaw in that logitech is they already had established fan bases, dan from GI ( where i followed him from to here) , the guys from here and GS, and abby from here. someone with no following starting from nearly the ground up isn't likely to have that type of success specially not from the jump. that takes time and frankly GB could be a good stepping stone at the bear min. for them. a job is a job and theres nothing wrong with using that as a steppingstone. Fact is GB needs more staff and if they aren't getting it what are they actually doing. the friends of the side side shows that we know they're doing/have in the works is nice and all but its not what ppl are looking for. As to the work from home stuff, i'm sure its harder but its been about a yr and a half , they know what they're doing at this point and someone new can learn if they have to, other companies do it no reason they can't (look at GI alot of new mid-pandemic hires)

In response to @finaldasa's statement (and your agreement) about the pandemic, I think the issue many people are having is that this is not a problem isolated to the pandemic. It feels like every 6 months to 1 year there was a new reason as to why GB's content production was decreased. Almost all of these reasons are valid on their own: Staff personal reasons (like Jeff having a child), staff attrition, difficulties with hiring, recently the pandemic and difficulties of working from home, and now the RV acquisition. But when all of these reasons chain together and the issue persists for years, at what point do we (as paying customers) say enough is enough and admit that there are underlying issues at work here?

Also, I think you make a salient point about the "glory days being over" and how we're never going to get the old "style" of GB back. I think you're right. That being said, I think many people in this thread are conflating two separate issues. One issue/complaint is that the old "style" of Giantbomb is gone. The other issue is decreased content production from a service that we are paying money for. The problem is that whenever people complain about the latter issue (as in this thread), they are written off by many (including staff) who are conflating their complaint with the first issue.

I think a lot of it just has to be there just is not a whole lot of interesting games coming out. The pandemic has just slowed production down on a ton of games. Personally In the last 6 months there has not been a new game I have been remotely interested in and the next year does not look all that interesting as well. Really I think it just comes down to there is not a whole lot to showcase.

@mrgreenman:GB has never been all about the new stuff to the point where the external market decides how active GB can be. This is the site where we had weekly run-ins with 90's FMV games (Choose our adventure), a steady flow of old ass arcade & C64 content (Old Games Show), playthroughs of games that are like 20 years old (God Hand, Kingdom Hearts) and random check ins with old B-tier games (Haze, 50 Cent BOTS, Total Overdose).

Naturally when there aren't any big games out there, the amount of quick looks that do well number-wise will be diminished, and there will be less chatter from all the folk playing the same game on the bombcast. But this site and it's audience has shown time and time again that there's a place to look back towards the games of yore and still have that be compelling in the current day.

@mrgreenman: Because you are losing interest in videogames does not mean that there was no interesting game releases in the last 6 months. Off the top of my head we've had Hitman 3, Skul, Atelier Ryza, The Medium (ended up being a dud, but still newsworthy), Yakuza remastered, Haven, Nioh remastered, Little Nightmares 2, Super Mario 3D World, P5 Strikers, Hellpoint, Disco Elysium's final cut, Outriders, RE Village, Oddworld, Nier, Returnal, Necromunda, Ratchet and Clank, and Guilty Gear.

And that's just shit that personally interests me. I didn't even touch on the niche pc only Indies! I'm not even going to list the tonnes of games that are coming in the next few months alone.

To say that this website hasn't had decent games to cover this year is just a straight up lie. They could easily put out at least 1 quicklook a week if they felt inclined to. I've seen too many people in this thread use this as an excuse and it needs to stop.

the fact that they are separate issues is imo the biggest key of this thread. while some ppl complain about the lack of studio stuff due to the pandemic and the 'vib' you loose from it i feel that even without they they Could e just fine remote. Hell the earliest pandemic stuff had plenty of stuff going for it imo. The issue is the lack of content more than anything. its not that they put out nothing but when its pretty much just 1 podcast and a upf each week with a sprinkle here n there its a definite draught of content. sure you can say the borne to run and grubsnax are there but side shows from non-staff aren't what ppl come here for and those being premium only also leaves a giant void for free members which is sad too. even more-so tho as a paying customer its been extra dry around here and outside of benefit of the doubt i can't see why anyone (new) would sub with the output we've been getting this year. we can say its a staffing issue all we want for an excuse for them and sure some of it is but ben has been gone about 6 months, and the guys nearly 3 months now , thats not counting dan n abby leaving before the RV stuff was finalized. While we know nothing of whats happening behind the scenes with that it seems rather odd that they couldn't fill in at least maybe 2 of those 4 missing spots at this point. Theres nothing wrong with companies changing over time imo , life happens , things change, but the draught in content we've scene during this is just frankly bad business.

this^ i mean AAA games i've been interested in next to none this yr but indie games theres a ton that look great imo and while my tastes might not line up with staff they're on record having liked plenty of indies over the years to varying degrees. n thats not counting the possibility of the older game stuff they could do QL stuff aside.

It's not odd. It took them three years to get Vinny a second video producer at Giant Bomb East so that Vinny could be able to even take a day off without that studio having to shut down for the day. It took five months to hire Ben to replace Dan when he moved to Giant Bomb East. You can not just walk up to management, tell them you need more people, and expect to get it in any sort of timely manner. It's just not how this works. It's not. And any time there's a change in management, you might as well be starting over. Not only was their a change in management, Giant Bomb belongs to an entirely different company. It's going to take months to settle in, for Giant Bomb to get to know management, for management to get to know Giant Bomb and what Giant Bomb needs, figure out how to get them what they need, and finally find people that fit into what Giant Bomb needs for staff.

THIS! You've actually said this better than I could have. That is the issue... The bottom line is Jeff and the other OGs at the time agreed to make this website a subscription service. Once that happened, they have taken upon themselves a responsibility to be consistent in putting out content the people paid their money for. For years now, even before the pandemic this hasn't been happening. So the people have a right to demand their money's worth. This is true of any service. And for the people so eager to defend them. Answer this question, if it was any other service you were paying for and that service suddenly stop producing in a timely manner what you've been paying for, would you just say "oh well, times are tough" or " I'll give them my money even if they do produce nothing" or would you be upset that your money is being wasted in your mind? I'm not talking about people who are fine with how things are currently, I'm talking about people who agree that GB has been lackluster for a while now, but are still quick to give them a pass, because " I like" - fill in the blank. And to be just, many people now speaking up have given them the benefit of the doubt for a while now.

i mean the difference with the ben n dan situation is dan didn't leave he relocated so not exactly the same. the vinny stuff i'm sure had a factor of why things possibly went how they did cause of corporate red tape, but fact is that would have also at that time been a new position. RV taking over there was 4 positions that aren't filled now since ppl left not new positions like your examples. i've worked for alot of companies that try to run on bare bones so i get your point tho its a very business thing cause of higher-ups thing to do , that doesn't change it being bad business tho and IF its a upper management issue then the site is suffering for it , but all the talk about RV actually being pretty good on staff's part and bakalar's new position being the middleman that seems like it would have been not the case? i'm sure that was poorly phrased ( most my stuff is) but i think you might get what i mean. at the end of the day tho i think the staffing issues are just a half-valid excuse to hide behind. they might not be able to have as great output as before but it doesn't seem like theres any real reason they shouldn't be able to segregate a hour-2 more a week in front of a screen having something for steady content that ppl know are coming down the pipe.

@styx971: Ben wasn't a new position. Dan's transfer filled Austin's role, which was vacant for 6 months, then Ben filled Dan's role, leaving them with the same number of people on staff they had previously. Abby's the only hire that increased their staff number.

@asshat: I don't really have a dog in this race in any way, but I wanted to say how much I love that you sign your posts Mr. Asshat in a very serious and dignified manner.

@brian_: fair point i didn't think of him as filling austin's but your right ,to that end i guess jan filling drew's spot being production n all. i will say however jan has really been shining in all of this weather i'm into the stuff he plays or not.

GB is sadly dead in my eyes. After everyone left the site became nothing anymore. I came here for the people and now the people are gone.

Maybe someday they will have their Phoenix moment and rise back up into something I want to watch. But it doesn't look like it. I bled black and red since the site came out but, I just can't anymore. I cant even rewatch the old stuff. It just makes me sad for some reason. Which really sucks. I thought I would always have that.

Anyway, they scammed an extra year sub out of me by it renewing a month before it was announced everyone was leaving. Still kind of salty about that. But nothing to be done about it I guess. Will check back in another 3 or 4 months and see if the sites still here or not.

Etherway, thanks for the memories. And for allowing me to feel like I was part of a cool community for a long time.

@asshat: This is hilarious. You sound like you're representing a GB-in-exile, the victims of a war of words that don't dare show their faces here lest they incur the wrath of the mods.

@bladeofcreation: Yeah never once have I ever used the word cringe unironically but I think after reading that 'Declaration of Independence' over there, the time has come.

I have no horse in this race, tbh. Sure, the site isn't where I'd like it to be in terms of content I am paying for but otherwise I'm enjoying the new shows that are coming out of all of this. Looking forward to what's next.

I do like the name Mr. Asshat

I can understand that there has been a drop off in content compared with before. I'm newer, having only found the site in Jan 2020 from the bombcast and even going from 3 podcasts to one has been a big hit. Nextlander has filled the beastcast gap for me. What I would say is I have enjoyed the borne to run episodes, I enjoy that it's edited. I'm hopeful for the guilty pleasures episodes and new shows that are coming. Im fine with gameplay edits and some production. I'm not cancelling my rolling monthly yet, as I'm watching mass alex and wanted to watch metal gear scanlon so the archives are worth it for me though I'll never catch up on all the content. In a way, some of this conversation is almost like discussions around a gaas game, where there are some consumers who will always burn through all the content that could be put out and worry there is not enough whilst most casuals can't keep up with the grind.

Just want to point out that the people who work on and contribute to this site are real people, not characters.

I heard Giant Bomb contains no actual tuna DNA.

This thread has been far more productive than I originally thought, and I'm glad that it seems it is actually be used for feedback vs just yelling about how people are unhappy.

Myself personally, it's not that there isn't any content because there is, they put out at least 3 or 4 things a week. My issue is, it's all largely the same.

We have 2 news related shows(which can be found on a multitude of other sites), we have a playthrough of souls games for the upteenth time on the internet(let alone this site), and Guilty Treasures seems like a historical piece which while neat is VERY niche.

And I've barely checked in on UPF because it also seems to have become extremely niche with the types of games they cover. It's cool they are giving exposure to games that would normally fall under the radar, or have been forgotten, but at the same time part of what drew me to this site is hearing rather unique takes on games that I and MANY people are considering purchasing.

From what I've gathered from this thread and my own thoughts is GB have built up a specific type of audience, and now their shift in content is completely misaligned with that established audience. It's good for them, I want them to do what they like, but there will probably be a downhill period while they try to get a new audience that is into that, and I'm more just worried the ROI won't be there for them in time.

I'm not going to lie, I almost exclusively consume old content at this point. I've been going through the old UPF's and I will say a really miss those days. I know it will never be the same again, and that is just a part of life, but the simple just a couple of friends on a couch doing dumb stuff was great. The energy was infectious, and it's hard not to laugh when Jeff would always make Brad lose his shit laughing with his funny commentary.

It's a bummer when things change in a way you don't want, but I hope and have faith that Jeff G can pull it off. Though I do agree with the sentiment that they should be a little more transparent about some things.

A fine day to you @vaiz,

Your feedback is very much welcomed and appreciated. I too do not support dog racing, and so I love that you do not either! I'm happy to have brightened your day.

Affectionately yours,

Mr. Asshat

Good day @BladeOfCreation,

Indeed these are troubling times we live in. I am excited that you can see the humor in situations such as these. I too choose to focus on the lighter aspects of serious concern. For without laughter and happiness in our hearts, what are we left with? I dare not think of such depressing things.

I hope your spirits stay high with ever a smile on your face.

In laughter,

Mr. Asshat

History was too afraid to publish the civil war dispatches of Private Asshat.

@galvano said:

Hello @galvano,

I trust you are having a fine day.

It has come to my attention that my previous post within this thread may have caused you some distress. I noticed you used choice terms such as "cringe" and understood my words to represent a "Declaration Of Independence" in some form. I'd like to invite you to contact me via PM to discuss what I believe to be a misplaced understanding of my original intent, and an opportunity to address your concerns with me personally, rather than in the third person.

I appreciate your taking the time from your day to read over my thoughts, and hope that not all of them were lost on you.

Should you chose to accept my invitation, I'd like to offer some food for thought beforehand, as perhaps it will provide aid as a primer towards our conversation. Note I have already followed you on the site, as a necessary prerequisite to initiate a PM.

The following two excerpts are from notable poet Alexander Pope's work, An Essay on Criticism. Though centuries old, I find his words to still be very relevant in today's world. The first passage is fairly self explanatory:

But you who seek to give and merit fame,
And justly bear a critic's noble name,
Be sure your self and your own reach to know,
How far your genius, taste, and learning go;
Launch not beyond your depth, but be discreet,
And mark that point where sense and dullness meet.

Pope continues on in part two of the poem. However, as a sidebar, if you're unfamiliar with Pope's works or this particular poem, the simplest distillation for this second passage would be as such: In effect, Pope is stating that a little learning or knowledge will only befuddle someone, misleading them into thinking they know more than in fact they do. As such, the only solution to this would be to continue learning.

A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

I hope this finds you well, and give pause to consider my offer such that we remedy any miscommunication for future discussions.

Thanks again for your time.

Sincerely,

Mr. Asshat

Hi @Mr.Platitude,

Thank you for making that distinction. That is a very important point, and one that if forgotten, could lead to grave misrepresentation or worse situations. While someone such as yourself that is surely familiar with platitudes, allow me to suggest several common use definitions of the noun 'character':

The mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
The quality of being individual in an interesting or unusual way.
Strength and originality in a person's nature.

Though it is true character can stand to represent by definition, a person in a novel, play, or movie. Given that this word in particular has several definitions and meanings, one could conclude that I am aware of the human nature of those previously brought to attention.

Again, I feel it is important and am grateful that you were able to use me as an opportunity to remind others of this quality for those that work at Giant Bomb.

If you should have any other such opportunities that I may be able to assist with, please do not hesitate to ask.

Best,

Mr. Asshat

I was there from the start. Watching Gamespot, Ryan and Jeff G. Then followed everything going forward. I was a sub from day 1. I always aligned with Vinny the most, and once Vinny and Alex moved to set up shop in New York, I lost interest in GB west. I followed GB East, continued my sub, and never watched anything from GB west. Dan, Austin, and Abby were great, but my main reason for the sub was Vinny, Alex and Jeff B - their podcast was so worth the money.

Now, there is no one left at GB I care about. So I'm out.

I do want to be very clear though. Watching them for a decade has been amazing. Such talent, so ahead of the game.

I wish Jeff G and the remaining guys all the best.