Giant Bomb GOTY 2019 Discussion Thread

Certainly the worst GOTY year at GB by a wide margin, even over the dreaded shitty argument years. And the worst part is I'm certain Jeff will convince himself all the criticism is just people wanting the old argument shit not people wanting all the fun and life of GOTY back.

oh shit yeah by far the worst GOTY confirmed

It's important to separate the types of GOTY the crew produces: the podcasts / deliberations, and the extra video content.

The format of podcasts can be argued until the cows come home. I'm a fan of the staff not having to look to ending their year yelling at each other, and like the recaps. Yeah, there's a lot of rehashing, but it's also a chance to give their final thoughts on a game, which might get missed in a podcast.

But I agree with a lot of people in this thread that the video content didn't do it for me at all this year. Such a low bar for production, on a site where almost half the main cast is listed as a producer, is just super disappointing.

@chaser324: not shocked. I have loved ZMF but he really has become domesticated hard. It's actually kind of funny to see but not quite the same. I'm sure he's happier tho lol.

I appreciate that the vast majority of you have kept things civil and constructive in here. Keep it clean and don't hurl insults at others just because they don't agree with your point of view.

Is it me or does anyone else notice that Jason's GOTY list hasn't been posted yet?

@yyninja: he posted on twitter that some health things have popped up and that he'll be unable to post any of his goty stuff because of it, at least for the time being.

I much prefer the old format with the categories each day. In those categories, games that wouldn't end up on the list would still get their due. They would talk about one of these cool games for a few minutes then move on. I hope they go back to the previous format they used to use. Talking about each game that came out just isn't that exciting or fun. I like the concept as being a nice time capsule of the years games, but not for game of the year.

PS. Bring back Hitsmas.

@broshack: I've gone through this whole thread waiting on someone to bring this up. Even with the new toothless debate format, he's still lobbing personal insults, condescending to people (especially Abby and Dan), and whining constantly. During the worst years of GoTY, I felt like removing him from the discussion would have solved most of the problems. It seems like he's always the first to escalate the negativity.

Yeah, I'll also echo the sentiment that the format this year of everything didn't work well. I think it's fair to say that, given the tight schedule this year, a lot of folks would happily trade the ~13 hours spent summarizing the games that came out this year for an hour or two of cross-coast content like a Hitsmas or something along those lines.

Not only that, the extreme amount of podcasting crammed into a short time has seemed to have turned into this Sisyphean task the last few years that is a massive drain on the crew while not being something the community seems to enjoy as much as in the past either. The super long podcast format worked okay when there were 4-6 people but with the much larger staff there is now, arguments frequently turn into a mess and people always end up talking over each other. I think one or two podcasts of much more structured and concise discussion would not only be a big benefit to the content itself, but also would also be much kinder to the crew.

After thinking about it more and reading the concerns of others in this thread I have come to this mind-blowing conclusion that I definitely am the first person to ever think of:

I truly believe that a lot of GOTY problems could be solved if the east coast had their own separate goty deliberations/content. As nice as it is for everyone to get together, it really just overcomplicates everything and the content suffers for it.

imagine this airtight logic being applied to, I don't know, the whole purpose of the site? go make your own Death Stranding dan!

I really hope they go back to the old format for the GOTY podcasts. For me, it was the thing I look forward to most on the site. The old format lended itself better to deeper and more thought provoking discussions just by the nature of actually needing to come up with reasons for it to fit that specific category. Now it’s 3 whole days (far too much) of surface level rehashing. I found myself multiple times completely forgetting what game they were even talking about because there was so many and it boiled down to the same sentiment for each game; “oh it was fine.” Maybe it enabled them to stay more organized but I couldn’t tell where one discussion began and the other ended because it could be applied to every game.

I don’t expect them to change the way they want to do it because it’s their site. My voice in this chamber is that I’m disappointed and I hope that next year brings me more joy.

@reagent: I’m feel the opposite, Brad is probably the best part of Goty since he is the best at articulating his thoughts, so is Alex. I think he may get annoyed because, especially the two you mention don’t do that as well, which isn’t a knock against them. However, Instead of exploring why they found a game; fun, charming, satisfying etc. they just stop there at a very basic thought and keep repeating these general feelings whenever they need to defend a game. And it’s hard to debate feelings

Austin’s Fallout 4 and invisible inc. argument is really good example of Someone expressing why they enjoyed a game IMO.

I enjoyed the year-in-review recap podcasts (they make my annual "well I guess I better clean the house" bearable) - but I do miss a number of the categories.

The categories, weirdly enough, brought about conversations that aren't discussed much when just generally talking about games. Things like 'Best Villain' or 'Character we would most like to party with' for example. These were fun and often didn't result in negativity.

'Please Stop' / 'Take a Break' / 'Worst Trend' / 'Check Yourself Before You Wriggety-Wreck Yourself' / 'Hottest Mess' also serves as a way of calling out some of the more questionable practices that had occurred over the year. Its omission does a disservice to the site's critical summation the year in gaming.

I've looked all over the site and can't seem the find the official 2019 community Top 10 list. You know where people make their own list and they get added to a database, and the staff count all the games and make an official community list for that year. Is this among many other things also cut from this years GOTY as well?

Am I missing something but are there no GOTY write ups? I have no interest in listening to the podcasts but still like to read the results.

@av_gamer: It's been buried. I @ed Rorie in the comments cuz it's not easy to find but Idk if it saw it.

@williamhenry: Nope

Even after all the podcasts have wrapped I'm firmly in the middle when it comes to the format. I didn't dislike it for the most part but it wasn't exactly one for the ages either. Weirdly enough I think my favorite GOTY content this year was all the written stuff, which is so absurd to say on a site that seemingly wants to phase that stuff out.

I love this site because they have a unique style of content and production that has avoided YouTube trends over the years, sticking to their vision of video game coverage. GOTY, which has had on and off years just like any other feature, has been a great place for content unique to GB and a great opportunity for content mixing personalities from both coasts. I don't feel good about this year.

The podcasts are the podcasts, and while I preferred the arguments of old, I get it. I liked the two pieces of group content despite them being a damn mess. These other videos are some real WatchMojo-ass shit. I can't tell if that's a bit or not.

I have no real issue with the concept of weird personal lists, and the insight offered in some of them is great, but the format is disappointing. Jeff's video is the only one that's decidedly GB and is so different that it almost feels like an FU to some suit that told them to do more YouTubey stuff. I hope GB can continue to produce the type of dumb content I subscribe for. I can't imagine going anywhere else.

The podcasts were fine to me, it was fun to hear folks talk to each other about games when they haven’t been in the same room talking about it on tape. Maybe a little less knives and daggers than years before but that’s fine.

What I really miss is more group video content. Is Feud and Winter Games the only stuff we’re getting? That’s a bummer ): those two were really fun but I miss the cornucopia of videos like the Millenials watching old Gamespot content or Hitsmas or all that other stuff. It was my favorite thing. When they’re in a room like E3 or the old GDC stuff, that’s my fave. I just like hearing them riff.

Hey so while they didn't do Most Disappointing, I think we as a community can conclude that they would have given it to Death Stranding, right? Like regardless of however you feel about the game, the crew was in general down on it, and the difference between Dan's Kojima induced hype-bliss for the game and his actual reaction to it is great enough to cause gravitational lensing.

I'm not nearly as down on the format as some people, but I do think that the ratio of recap/categories feels a bit off. At this point I think I'd prefer to see one of two options:

1. Cut the recap portion down to 2 days and do 3 days of categories. I don't need the bloodthirsty knives out stuff so much, but I miss categories like Best Moment/Sequence and Hottest Mess.
2. Split GOTY content into East Coast and West Coast. This many people in one room is A WHOLE LOT, and I feel like this change in format would give some of the less vocal people on staff more of a chance to participate. I loved getting to hear more from Jan this year on things like Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon, and this type of change would support that more. I feel like it would also give the East Coast a chance to maybe do a completely different style of GOTY content. As the West Coast seems to settle more and more in the direction of direct editorial coverage and East Coast is focusing more on wacky hijinks (both sides of which I love), it seems like East Coast could recapture some of the sillier categories that we used to have, while West Coast can continue the current format we've been seeing.

I will say that my favorite change to GOTY in recent years has been the new format for Best Music, with the built in expectation of playing clips. It's one of my favorite categories overall and I feel like this format is a much better way of giving each soundtrack its due.

This is the first year I think I kind of stopped the videos like ten or twenty minutes in or skipped around in them a ton, the fun categories being taken out are really a bummer- hottest mess and biggest disappointment were probably the two things I was most excited for. I almost feel like the recap stuff could be done as a podcast across the coasts or off screen honestly idk. Love the crew and the site a lot but this year was kind of nothing.

The guests GOTY lists are stellar though, like always <3

I’ve been a subscriber since 2011 and have always considered GOTY to be a highlight for the site. Obviously some years are better than others based on staff at the time and games that year but these last two years have been really disappointing, with this year especially so. My subscription will be up in January and for the first time in years, I’m not going to renew. I’ll always be thankful to Jeff and co for the years of entertainment but as it stands right now, the content that the site is putting out is nowhere near the quality it used to be, and GOTY 2019 does an excellent job of highlighting that.

For my two cents - I think it's a neat idea for them to kind of look at the year as a whole and just give us their final thoughts on each game... but at thirteen hours or whatever it is, they've sacrificed way too much in the process.

The original four were veterans who had no issues going at each other. I love the new folks, but it makes sense for them not to have these kind of arguments... maybe it's because arguing with your boss in a heated fashion is not a good idea, maybe they're not as tight of friends (unfamiliarity and politeness go hand in hand), maybe it's the age gap - whatever the reason is, they can't get into it in the same way... and it's not that I want them to fight - but I think these limitations forces the format to be kind of bland and sterile in the process. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Skyrim VS Saints Row 3 again... but I admire the spirit.

Anyways, to finish this compliment sandwich, given that they had (I think) only one week instead of two, I thought their smaller segments was a good idea, and I enjoyed the lists. I definitely miss the same things people here miss (Hottest mess) but I liked the new stuff.

Just going to add another voice to the feedback in the hopes that Jeff doesn't just plug his ears and do the same shit next year.

This had to be the most boring and pointless year in GB GOTY history, yall. If you don't want to stress about GOTY, then just don't do it. You cannot convince me that any real amount of effort was put into any part of this aside from the Family Feud video.

The quality of content on GB has been slipping for years and this is just the icing on a shit cake. Is everyone just coasting until the site gets shut down because they don't have anything better to do?

You can add one more to the list of folk who will be skipping their premium sub this year. This is a real bummer and I hope it serves as a wake-up call for the crew. I'll be back if ya'll decide to care again.

I don't have anything unique to add. The idea they've discussed about how much time should they be giving up for just 1 week of content at game of the year is valid, but it's also the only time that kind of content is possible. What was there felt shoddy and lifeless.

Probably won't be renewing my subscription in July for the first time since they started selling subscriptions. Not that my opinion matters, just feeling very empty and ambivalent about GB in general.

@beforet said:

Perhaps. I think Dan would have really pushed for it to win like he tried for Red Dead Redemption 2 last year.

But this time there would've been much less resistance. As for GB coasting? I don't see it. They're getting older. They can't devote as much time to long-running projects or ideas because they've got mouths to feed. That and they've done this for over a decade.

I don't buy the excuse of "they've got mouths to feed", they still work the same number of hours a week.

Sure, I also heard the guys from the East weren't around for the usual 2 weeks. Could've just been down to that time constraint. If they had one week to play with, most of that is taken up by deliberations.

Honestly, I'd be fine with them brooming GOTY next year. There were a lot of things I was underwhelmed with this year, but I think the worst is that it didn't seem like anyone was having any fun. As a viewer I have a good time when it looks like the crew is having a good time, and that definitely didn't feel like it was the case this year. Instead the whole thing had a very obligatory "because everyone else is doing it" vibe.

I'd much rather they replace 20 hours of recap podcasts with 20 hours of fun stuff like Hitsmas, or some bizarre Dan-invented game, or Abby playing through a Nancy Drew game. The kind of madcap stuff they used to do much more frequently.

@therealturk said:

yeah- this is spot on. i'd love for jeff/vinny (presumed GOTY leadership) to have a think about what to produce moving forward. maybe that means handing a lot of the creative decisions off to the new blood who likely have more time and energy (and less familial obligations/more to prove professionally in the ambition sense). or blow up the whole thing and think of a new way to present the site's collective year-end thoughts in a way that's exciting to them. if it's a work/life balance thing- i for one am 100% ok if this meant it takes all dec. and jan. to produce- if the holidays get in the way, move it off the holidays.

i always enjoy and appreciate what they produce- but the 'this day in giant bomb history' section on the home page made for some pretty stark comparisons between this year's GOTY and years prior.

Yeah, this, to me, was the only real problem I had with this year. I quite like the format in theory. Especially because it seems to be the way that they prefer it for themselves and for kind of shielding themselves from the toxicity that was something like 2017. And since it is their list, and this has always been intended to be a look inside the creation of that, however they want to get there works for me. Aspects of GOTY were always tiring and frustrating and at times even uncomfortable in the past, so whatever makes them happy will make me happy.

Having said that...they just seemed bored? This feels like something that has gradually been happening over the years and here it was at its worst. Which is fine, maybe they ARE bored? They've been doing this for a long time and top 10 lists are SO incredibly pointless, it was bound to happen at some point. But this year in general, with going out for one week and then spending a lot of hours slogging through all of this, doing very little group content, it just felt like they sort of wanted to get this over with and go back to their respective lives. Which, I mean, is totally fine? I honestly think they should just bag doing a "look behind the curtain", get together for a week if they still want to, bang out a top 10 list behind the scenes if they still want to, and do group content for the rest of the time that they can then put out over Christmas week. Between that and guest and staff top 10 things, I think most people would be fine? At least, I would, and it seems like maybe they would too.

I thought days 4 and 5 of the podcasts were fine. Days 1-3 were the first time I’ve opted out of GB podcasts.

I’m with most folks around here, preferring the 2008-2016 run to 2017 - 2019. I hate seeing this slide, but this is still my favorite place to come for content...

Random thoughts:

- Who are days 1 - 3 for? That’s 15-some-odd hours of rehashing old conversations. I’d think regular listeners would have heard all this before. I’d think people just tuning in to check GOTY out would NOT be into listening to all that content.

- I think some of the liveliness of previous deliberations could be brought back by some of the fun, dropped categories like Hottest Mess, Best Trend, Please Stop, Best Moment, etc. They’re low stakes fun that people can get riled-up about without anything coming to blows.

- How did Bloodstained get knocked out of best music so early? How did Toejam & Earl not come up? How did Later Alligator not win that category???

- A best Fatality category would have been fun as hell.

I thought Jeff had basically said that days 1-3 were for them? I mean, isn't the whole thing just "here's an inside look at how we came to our GOTY decision?" My understanding based on what Jeff said when asked about it is that they preferred this way to being at each other's throats for several hours, and also thought this was a good way for them to reflect on the year in games as opposed to just mentioning names and killing them immediately.

I think that this setup could honestly be fine (and again, if it's what they want, go for it)...I just thought it was low energy. I personally have found the whole "let's just be basically awful to each other" aspect really tiring each year and I can only imagine how it makes them feel.

This was originally the case. The podcasts were a very cool behind-the-scenes of how they came to their decisions - the main content being the written articles/videos with winners and such. Then along the way people enjoyed the podcast as much as the written content.

Only recently did GB decide to just drop the written articles. Which sucks Because now you don’t have a Nice little winners recap, you can’t see the winners and go listen to how they got there (I loved doing that before), there’s no fun little summaries, etc. I understand dropping written reviews, and even the GOTY recap videos, but I don’t get dropping the written GOTY articles. Hell, I bet Marino or a mod or someone would be willing to write them. I’ll do it for free just to have them on the site again.

@sethmode: I don't mind the idea of looking back on the year but it'd be cool if they found a way to get it done in 2 days. Categories are fun and I don't think they're what brings the negativity, that's on them. Jeff, Dan, Brad, and Abby are the worst arguers, tho Abby should get some slack 'cuz I have to assume she picks it up from the others. Guys like Vinny, Jason, Jan, and Alex can speak about their thoughts and not be shitty about what they haven't played/spent little time with. Ben's good at expressing meaningful thoughts on the stuff he feels strongly about.

I just don't buy the argument that categories are the problem. Don't be shitty cuz you want your thing to win and don't keep trashing games you barely touched, that's the real problem imo.

@liquiddragon: A good point. I had said in a comment on one of the days virtually the same thing, that a lot of the bad arguing behavior seems to be learned in some cases, and just a never-ending cycle. "DECLARATIVE POSITIVE STATEMENT!" "DECLARATIVE NEGATIVE STATEMENT!" "DECLARATIVE STATEMENT ABOUT PERSON'S MENTAL STATE!" it is pretty exhausting. That kind of argumentative style and just kind of total disregard for discussion then gets worse and even more stark when you have someone like Vinny calmly say "I liked a lot of things about game A and think it is wonderful, I just personally think that game B does these things that speak to me more and overall are more important." or something of that nature. It makes hearing "THAT GAME SUCKS SHIT" all the more coarse and kind of gross.

@theadmin: Yeah, dropping the written recaps really bummed me out as well!

You've just described coasting.

I don't think GB is in general (altho in the West with some things I would say they are for sure) but GOTY this year was a big time coast. There was no fun to it or inventiveness and a regular week on this site is much more compelling.

I've been around since like, forever. September 2008, according to my profile. And yeah, echoing several people who have already said it - the crew just didn't seem like they were having fun. I listened to the first couple of podcasts and then just stopped. The short form videos just didn't hit well for me, the longer videos were good.

I feel like there's just too many people on staff to do anything focused, everyone has such varied tastes because there's so many people. I'd rather see them all make their own lists, do a point-based aggregate of that and have a podcast talking about the results. Spend the rest of the time making cool video content. I've always come to this site for the entertaining video content and it was a bummer to not see much of that this year.

At this point, the thing I look forward to most for GOTY-time is the yearly "Austin Walker teaches the GB East crew an indie RPG" Beastcast episode... and like, that's kind of a bummer to have my most anticipated content be focused on someone who's not even part of the site anymore. Maybe it means my tastes have changed! That's fine too, it's just a weird feeling.

After, skimming Reddit and here, seem most people are various degrees of disappointment (I am including myself in the disappointment). I would love to know how the staff feel about it. I know Jeff answers some questions has he done so yet?