Final Fantasy XIII vs Lost Odyssey. (Long Blog)

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Edited By lucas_kelly

Final Fantasy XIII vs Lost Odyssey

I decided to wait a little while until I played enough of Final Fantasy XIII before I judged it too much. Needless to say, most of my opinions I had at the beginning of the game remained right until the end. I'm going to say right now that Lost Odyssey is still my favorite JRPG this generation, and everything below is entirely my opinion. FF XIII is in no way a bad game, just not what I expected from a Final Fantasy.

Story

Final Fantasy XIII

FF XIII's story was without a doubt its biggest fault. It wasn't as deep or engaging as previous Final Fantasy's, and it felt like they stretched a fairly small story over many hours of gameplay. Most of the story came from the characters personal stories, rather than the actual plot. The game no developing love story, unlike many Final Fantasy's.

Lost Odyssey
Lost Odyssey plot was far deeper, and felt much like a classic Final Fantasy's story. It was epic and paced well, you always wanted to see what was around the next corner. The story, much like Final Fantasy's 7, 8, and 9, involved a clear villain. The dream sequences added an extra layer to the story of the characters, and were incredibly well written.

Overall: Lost Odyssey wins by a long shot. Again the story and plot was just far more engaging.

Battle System

Final Fantasy XIII
Although streamlined, Final Fantasy XIII battle system was quite refreshing. I think it was a good choice to move away from the traditional turn based battle system. Paradigms were a good addition, and the battles involved more than just brute force, with a lot of the battles you had to think about how you could kill the enemy. Battles which seemed impossible at first were easy once you figured out the right tactic.

Lost Odyssey
A pretty standard traditional battle system, but that's not to say its bad or anything. Lost Odyssey involved a skill link system, where you linked an immortal character with mortal character in order to learn their skills. This worked well, and meant any mortal character could lean any skill. The ring system also worked well, and you could change weapons and accessories during battle. LO was also the first game of the two to let you retry battles, rather than going back to the last save point. You have a larger battle team of five characters, rather than the standard three.

Overall: Final Fantasy XIII wins, I still thoroughly enjoyed Lost Odyssey's, but FF XIII's was more original and less repetitive. There where also no random battles.

Graphics and Presentation

At first glance you may think that Final Fantasy XIII has the far superior graphics and presentation, but I would have to disagree, at least with some aspects.

Final Fantasy XIII
The character models are done incredibly well with a lot of detail, but the environments lack a hand crafted feel, and most are just cut and paste jobs. The particle effects are also very well done. Some textures, particularly on environments are pretty standard and lack small detail. The CGI cut scenes are very well done, and obviously miles ahead of Lost Odyssey's.

Lost Odyssey
Lost Odyssey is a couple of years old now and it still hold up quite well. Unlike Final Fantasy XIII, the environments all feel hand crafted, and you never see the same thing twice. Here's what I mean:

While both have well made cutscenes, there is more subtle emotion in the faces of the characters, and better motion capture with Lost Odyssey. The lip sync is also slightly better in Lost Odyssey.
Here are two cutscenes from both games.

This one is the trailer showing off many cutscenes from the game.

Overall: I'm split down the middle on this one. While the characters models are better in FF XIII, the environments and major cutscenes are better in Lost Odyssey. Most would say Final Fantasy XIII, but I guess its a matter of preference.

Exploration and Freedom

Final Fantasy XIII
Well, apart from one area of the game exploration almost doesn't exist. The game is very linear and you cant explore any of the areas that you visit. You go to amazing looking cities yet they give you no option to have a look around. You cant go back to any of the areas you have previously been to, not that there's much need to. There are side missions, but they aren't very exciting. There is also no overworld map.

Lost Odyssey
Pretty much the opposite of everything above. You can go back a revisit almost all of the places that you visit throughout the story. The side quest are actually fun, and involve going to places which aren't in the story.

Overall: Without a doubt Lost Odyssey.

Characters

Final Fantasy XIII
The game has some very good characters, with the exception of Vanille and some might not like Hope very much. All the characters have good stories, but there is no developing love story. There is the love story between Snow and Serah, but that is already established at the beginning of the game, Lost Odyssey has an already established love story between Kaim and Sarah, and a developing love story between Jansen and Ming. None of the characters are very unique, but they are likable.

Lost Odyssey
Some may have problems with Cooke and Mack, but I didn't really have any major issues with them. Lost Odyssey has a larger range of characters which feel distinctively unique to one and other. The character development is done very well, with characters growing to like each other more as the game progresses. The villain isn't incredibly original but still better than any in FF XIII.

Overall: Lost Odyssey. Why? More character development, a broader range of characters, the characters show far more emotion, and are just generally more likable. Lightning is the same character throughout the whole game, while Kaim's personality changes and the game progresses.

Music

I'm not going to bother comparing them. Lost Odyssey had better music by far, if you disagree then you probably haven't heard it. Nobuo Uematsu composed the whole soundtrack in LO, and his absence from Final Fantasy XIII is very noticeable. XII's music isn't bad, the battle theme is particularly well done. If you haven't heard Uematsu's work on lost Odyssey I suggest you look it up and have a listen.

Voice Acting

Final Fantasy
Not bad, but could be better. The voices of Snow and Sazh are probably done the best, with the rest being above average, apart from Vanille maybe.

Lost Odyssey
All the voice acting is this game is to a very high standard. Some may not like the voices of Cooke and Mack, but the acting of the characters is done very well. Nothing critical to say.

Overall: If you have played both games you would probably agree with me that Lost Odyssey has the better voice acting. Maybe not by a whole lot though. The video's above give a good indication of what the voice acting is like in both games.

Final Thoughts

So its obvious that I think Lost Odyssey is a better game. Here are the main reasons:

1. It didn't try and change to much, it stuck with what worked.
2. An emotional and engaging story.
3. A better cast of characters.
4. Far more exploration and freedom.
5. You where under constant attack, there where actually places you could go to take a rest from battling enemies.
6. It feels like a classic Final Fantasy game.

The main problems I have with Final Fantasy:

1. It's hardly a Final Fantasy anymore.
2. No shops or towns.
3. Far too linear, I don't mind linearity in games but this takes it to whole new level.
4. You where under constant attack.
5. Weak story.

It all comes down to preference in the end, but I felt Lost Odyssey was a better Final Fantasy game than even Final Fantasy XIII was, that's saying a lot. It helps that Lost Odyssey was made by the original creator of Final Fantasy as well.

The end.

14 years ago

lucas_kelly

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#1 Edited By lucas_kelly

Final Fantasy XIII vs Lost Odyssey

I decided to wait a little while until I played enough of Final Fantasy XIII before I judged it too much. Needless to say, most of my opinions I had at the beginning of the game remained right until the end. I'm going to say right now that Lost Odyssey is still my favorite JRPG this generation, and everything below is entirely my opinion. FF XIII is in no way a bad game, just not what I expected from a Final Fantasy.

Story

Final Fantasy XIII

FF XIII's story was without a doubt its biggest fault. It wasn't as deep or engaging as previous Final Fantasy's, and it felt like they stretched a fairly small story over many hours of gameplay. Most of the story came from the characters personal stories, rather than the actual plot. The game no developing love story, unlike many Final Fantasy's.

Lost Odyssey
Lost Odyssey plot was far deeper, and felt much like a classic Final Fantasy's story. It was epic and paced well, you always wanted to see what was around the next corner. The story, much like Final Fantasy's 7, 8, and 9, involved a clear villain. The dream sequences added an extra layer to the story of the characters, and were incredibly well written.

Overall: Lost Odyssey wins by a long shot. Again the story and plot was just far more engaging.

Battle System

Final Fantasy XIII
Although streamlined, Final Fantasy XIII battle system was quite refreshing. I think it was a good choice to move away from the traditional turn based battle system. Paradigms were a good addition, and the battles involved more than just brute force, with a lot of the battles you had to think about how you could kill the enemy. Battles which seemed impossible at first were easy once you figured out the right tactic.

Lost Odyssey
A pretty standard traditional battle system, but that's not to say its bad or anything. Lost Odyssey involved a skill link system, where you linked an immortal character with mortal character in order to learn their skills. This worked well, and meant any mortal character could lean any skill. The ring system also worked well, and you could change weapons and accessories during battle. LO was also the first game of the two to let you retry battles, rather than going back to the last save point. You have a larger battle team of five characters, rather than the standard three.

Overall: Final Fantasy XIII wins, I still thoroughly enjoyed Lost Odyssey's, but FF XIII's was more original and less repetitive. There where also no random battles.

Graphics and Presentation

At first glance you may think that Final Fantasy XIII has the far superior graphics and presentation, but I would have to disagree, at least with some aspects.

Final Fantasy XIII
The character models are done incredibly well with a lot of detail, but the environments lack a hand crafted feel, and most are just cut and paste jobs. The particle effects are also very well done. Some textures, particularly on environments are pretty standard and lack small detail. The CGI cut scenes are very well done, and obviously miles ahead of Lost Odyssey's.

Lost Odyssey
Lost Odyssey is a couple of years old now and it still hold up quite well. Unlike Final Fantasy XIII, the environments all feel hand crafted, and you never see the same thing twice. Here's what I mean:

While both have well made cutscenes, there is more subtle emotion in the faces of the characters, and better motion capture with Lost Odyssey. The lip sync is also slightly better in Lost Odyssey.
Here are two cutscenes from both games.

This one is the trailer showing off many cutscenes from the game.

Overall: I'm split down the middle on this one. While the characters models are better in FF XIII, the environments and major cutscenes are better in Lost Odyssey. Most would say Final Fantasy XIII, but I guess its a matter of preference.

Exploration and Freedom

Final Fantasy XIII
Well, apart from one area of the game exploration almost doesn't exist. The game is very linear and you cant explore any of the areas that you visit. You go to amazing looking cities yet they give you no option to have a look around. You cant go back to any of the areas you have previously been to, not that there's much need to. There are side missions, but they aren't very exciting. There is also no overworld map.

Lost Odyssey
Pretty much the opposite of everything above. You can go back a revisit almost all of the places that you visit throughout the story. The side quest are actually fun, and involve going to places which aren't in the story.

Overall: Without a doubt Lost Odyssey.

Characters

Final Fantasy XIII
The game has some very good characters, with the exception of Vanille and some might not like Hope very much. All the characters have good stories, but there is no developing love story. There is the love story between Snow and Serah, but that is already established at the beginning of the game, Lost Odyssey has an already established love story between Kaim and Sarah, and a developing love story between Jansen and Ming. None of the characters are very unique, but they are likable.

Lost Odyssey
Some may have problems with Cooke and Mack, but I didn't really have any major issues with them. Lost Odyssey has a larger range of characters which feel distinctively unique to one and other. The character development is done very well, with characters growing to like each other more as the game progresses. The villain isn't incredibly original but still better than any in FF XIII.

Overall: Lost Odyssey. Why? More character development, a broader range of characters, the characters show far more emotion, and are just generally more likable. Lightning is the same character throughout the whole game, while Kaim's personality changes and the game progresses.

Music

I'm not going to bother comparing them. Lost Odyssey had better music by far, if you disagree then you probably haven't heard it. Nobuo Uematsu composed the whole soundtrack in LO, and his absence from Final Fantasy XIII is very noticeable. XII's music isn't bad, the battle theme is particularly well done. If you haven't heard Uematsu's work on lost Odyssey I suggest you look it up and have a listen.

Voice Acting

Final Fantasy
Not bad, but could be better. The voices of Snow and Sazh are probably done the best, with the rest being above average, apart from Vanille maybe.

Lost Odyssey
All the voice acting is this game is to a very high standard. Some may not like the voices of Cooke and Mack, but the acting of the characters is done very well. Nothing critical to say.

Overall: If you have played both games you would probably agree with me that Lost Odyssey has the better voice acting. Maybe not by a whole lot though. The video's above give a good indication of what the voice acting is like in both games.

Final Thoughts

So its obvious that I think Lost Odyssey is a better game. Here are the main reasons:

1. It didn't try and change to much, it stuck with what worked.
2. An emotional and engaging story.
3. A better cast of characters.
4. Far more exploration and freedom.
5. You where under constant attack, there where actually places you could go to take a rest from battling enemies.
6. It feels like a classic Final Fantasy game.

The main problems I have with Final Fantasy:

1. It's hardly a Final Fantasy anymore.
2. No shops or towns.
3. Far too linear, I don't mind linearity in games but this takes it to whole new level.
4. You where under constant attack.
5. Weak story.

It all comes down to preference in the end, but I felt Lost Odyssey was a better Final Fantasy game than even Final Fantasy XIII was, that's saying a lot. It helps that Lost Odyssey was made by the original creator of Final Fantasy as well.

The end.

14 years ago

Falsate

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#2 Edited By Falsate

1. It's hardly a Final Fantasy anymore.
2. No shops or towns.
3. Far too linear, I don't mind linearity in games but this takes it to whole new level.
4. You where under constant attack.
5. Weak story.

4 out of 5 of these statements are trivial and I personally felt (in my opinion) your standards for an RPG are frivolous. If you know every Final Fantasy is intended to be devised differently and seek change with every instalment, don't expect the game design and writing to harbor similarities let alone the series staples. The game mechanics have always been changed around and World Maps look ridiculous in this generation of Gaming. I can only imagine World Maps being much more convivial in the Playstation One era. It is entirely possible to make World Maps, look at it from a Game Designer's point of view.

If Towns pose no relevance to the story, then there's no point in crafting any in vain especially in a cumbersome HD generation.
Fact: There are shops in Final Fantasy XIII. Gil is the currency used and you can buy Materials and Items.

You're trying to circumvent the definition of Shops and base it off its predecessors which again is pointless. The environments in Final Fantasy XIII were all hand crafted and unique; better than any other game I've seen especially in the Cities and Natural habitats.

I can say the mythos of fal'Cie and l'Cie is purely something distinguishable in the series, but falls short with tacit potential.

14 years ago

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#3 Edited By ZenaxPure

Oh boy opinions!

Anyway, I think LO had a ridiculously boring story. Now mind you I said story, not characters, because LO had an excellent cast but c'mon the story is typical save the world garbage. While in the simplest form you could say the same for 13 at least it tried to bring a lot of twists into it. However, I fully agree with what Falsate said with a lot of those comparisons being pretty trivial.

But that aside, yes, I agree it does come down to preference. For me the games are completely different and aren't really comparable at all. LO was all about sticking to a formula that worked in the past (which no, isn't a bad thing in my mind) while 13 is all about trying new stuff. I'd say I like both about equally at this point but I haven't delved into 13's endgame yet which LO was kind of lacking. I have every achievement in the game save Professor K and treasure hunter and my characters are not even max level (or anywhere near).... game was far too easy.

14 years ago

animateria

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#4 Edited By animateria

Lost Odyssey wins a lot because it's traditional?

Well, sorry but I'm tired of traditional JRPG (of the FF style) combat and pacing.

Ironically, I like the fact that every FF tried to be a bit different from each other, and FF13 just experimented with something more radical.

Lost Odyssey is just using the very core mechanic of FF and just slightly improving them. That's not really what a FF is about.

14 years ago

Wiseguy13

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#5 Edited By Wiseguy13

I dunno man...some of your opinions are insanity to me. I personally found everything about the story in LO to be crazy boring.

Plus I gotta ask....why are you so hung up on love stories? Usually that crap is the worst part of most FF games.

14 years ago

Jeust

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#6 Edited By Jeust

I really like Lost Odyssey and i agree with you.

The absence of towns, may seem trivial, but it matters. The loss of familiarity and the sense of relative security. Coupled with the curiosity of reaching a new settlement and finding its particularities. Towns may be full of npcs, but if a well made game - like LO - there are novelty in each town.

14 years ago

Akeldama

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#7 Edited By Akeldama

I thought Lost Odyssey was basically broken...Wasn't that the general consensus? Am I thinking about a different game?

14 years ago

Wiseguy13

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#8 Edited By Wiseguy13

I thought the general consensus is that it's crazy boring. At least that's what everyone I talk to says about it.

14 years ago

RobotHamster

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#9 Edited By RobotHamster

I haven't played either, sooooo I'm going to say pokemon is the best!

14 years ago

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#10 Edited By xyzygy

I agree with pretty much everything, Lost Odyssey is by far and away the better game and remains my favorite JRPG. The Final Fantasy's (after Sakaguchi left) try too hard to make it different, but Sakaguchi knows what he's doing. I love everything about Lost Odyssey and I've probably put over 200 hours into that game. In FFXIII, I only really like Sazh, Lightning and Fang. In Lost Odyssey, I like all the characters except for Cooke.

Lost Odyssey is the "true" Final Fantasy 13 :D

@Falsate:
He means actual towns with quests, hidden items, possible backstory. Not save spots with digital stores, the only difference in each one being a freaking picture. In FFXIII you can get almost all the weapons by just progressing through the game, where as in Lost Odyssey a lot of them are hidden because you need to go back to towns and villages to get a lot of things. There are also quests in these towns.

@Zenaxzd:
Have you gotten through the ToE in LO?

14 years ago

Symphony

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#11 Edited By Symphony

Interesting read. I disagree with a lot of it, but everyone has their own opinion.

@Zenaxzd said:

" Oh boy opinions!

Anyway, I think LO had a ridiculously boring story. Now mind you I said story, not characters, because LO had an excellent cast but c'mon the story is typical save the world garbage. While in the simplest form you could say the same for 13 at least it tried to bring a lot of twists into it. However, I fully agree with what Falsate said with a lot of those comparisons being pretty trivial. But that aside, yes, I agree it does come down to preference.

For me the games are completely different and aren't really comparable at all. LO was all about sticking to a formula that worked in the past (which no, isn't a bad thing in my mind) while 13 is all about trying new stuff. I'd say I like both about equally at this point but I haven't delved into 13's endgame yet which LO was kind of lacking. I have every achievement in the game save Professor K and treasure hunter and my characters are not even max level (or anywhere near).... game was far too easy. "

Pretty much this right here, actually.

I completely disregarded your (topic starter's) Graphics argument, however, when you purposely contrasted a bland screenshot of FFXIII to a very "busy" one of LO. First of all, I know where that picture in XIII is and I can't help but wonder, where the hell did the monsters go? From that perspective you should be able to see at least one, if not more, Adamantoise, a bunch of packs of those wolf things and/or behemoth and possibly even a chocobo. It almost seems like that was a pre-production screenshot of the area before they populated it.

A better comparison would have been two screenshots of cities -- one from LO and one from FFXIII. I think both do a terrific job of making the cities feel populated, though I was honestly floored by how spectacular Eden in FFXIII looks and stopped to take in the scenery many times there. The idea that it was a cut and paste job is absolutely absurd when you stop to look through the glass floor beneath you and see a sprawling, intricate city below (as well as in all directions around you).

It might sound like I'm trying to say FF is better than LO but I'm really not. As Zen said, I find it hard to compare the two in many regards. I just thought the graphics and presentation argument was skewed unfairly.

Both had some major flaws -- LO had a severe disconnect between the Kaim you played and the Kaim in the stories. In the stories he was full of emotion, compassion, and empathy. The Kaim you played was cold and emotionless -- even after regaining all his memories. It was unfortunate that I much preferred the character I was reading about far more than the one I was playing and his outburst at the end of the game was just ridiculous and completely out of character (thankfully everyone else shuts him up rather quickly). It also had a very poor combat system in my view, with a spell queuing system that was horrendous. Then there's the whole continuity issue of immortals surviving giant balls of lava dropping on their heads, but a group of angry rats can kill them and give you a game over... uhh what?

FFXIII had a severely underwhelming upgrade system and anything to do beyond the main story. The missions were just pulled out of FFXII but with less variety. Instead of having missions involving fetching items, talking to people, etc. every single XIII quest was "go over there and kill this mob" with many of the missions asking you to kill the exact same mob you already killed 3 times before for other missions. On top of this, the story starts off strong and intriguing but falls apart towards the end and is riddled with absurdities and madness, though that's been pretty par for the course in regards to Final Fantasies. I found myself wondering, "Uhh so why didn't the bad guy just do THIS? Problem solved. The end." on multiple occasions. The ending was super cliche and pretty underwhelming.

Whoops I'm ranting now, sorry about that. In any event, hooray for another JRPG fan! :D

14 years ago

gla55jAw

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#12 Edited By gla55jAw

For me Final Fantasy XIII, graphics wise, blows LO away. You cannot compare the cut-scenes at all. Just look at the character models and hair of the characters in LO, it's not even close.

The voice acting in LO is good, but compared to FFXIII it's cheesy.

Character wise, LO has characters that are more developed, but in FFXIII the characters mean more to us and you care more about them personally.

Both great games though. Still havn't finished FFXIII, or for that matter LO (on disk 4). I think I'm leaning towards FFXIII as the better game so far though.

14 years ago

Iceman2913

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#13 Edited By Iceman2913

I can't really comment since my ps3 is being fixed, but judging based on reviews and ect.. FF13 is a better game imo

14 years ago

veektarius

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#14 Edited By veektarius

I don't see how you can take anything over FFXIII's cutscene character expressions. They are just fantastic. And as for voice acting, well, there was some good voice acting in LO, but there was also the bad guy. He and Vanille almost cancel each other out. LO might still come out ahead, I'm not sure.

I do miss towns, though, and I wish FFXIII had put more time into letting you explore the world they'd created, because that's usually the trump card that JRPGs have over Western RPGs. There are usually areas you can visit that the main storyline never visits or only brushes over. Nautilus should have been another Golden Saucer; hell, they even took the theme, but all you got was a bunch of stinking Chocobos. I dunno. I enjoy FFXIII because it's a fun game rather than a fun story. I enjoyed LO because it was a fun story rather than a fun game. (Though as an earlier poster indicated, the fun part was the inter-character interplay and not the bogus story). As a bit of an aside, FFXIII's story IS actually pretty interesting. One race that's stuck performing a task tries to find a loophole to summon a god? That 's a good premise. They just really fucked up the delivery.

14 years ago

AltonBrown

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#15 Edited By AltonBrown

@xyzygy: Have you played Chrono Trigger? Blows 'em both out of the water.

14 years ago

Cornman89

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#16 Edited By Cornman89

I liked the dreams in LO, and the fact that Kaim wasn't in his teens or early twenties, but not much else.

I'm kinda done with the "traditional" JRPG though, so take that as you will.

14 years ago

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#17 Edited By xyzygy

@gla55jAw said:

" For me Final Fantasy XIII, graphics wise, blows LO away. You cannot compare the cut-scenes at all. Just look at the character models and hair of the characters in LO, it's not even close. The voice acting in LO is good, but compared to FFXIII it's cheesy. Character wise, LO has characters that are more developed, but in FFXIII the characters mean more to us and you care more about them personally. Both great games though. Still havn't finished FFXIII, or for that matter LO (on disk 4). I think I'm leaning towards FFXIII as the better game so far though. "

LO voice acting is cheesy compared to FFXIII? Have you even listened to Vanille, or Hope, or Snow? God, they only talk about one or two things:

Snow: Serah, being a hero.

Hope: Getting stronger.

Vanille: Sticking together and overcoming challenges.

@AltonBrown said:

" @xyzygy: Have you played Chrono Trigger? Blows 'em both out of the water. "

Yeah, I played Chrono Trigger about 9 years ago on an emulator. I love that game SO much. Before I played Lost Odyssey, it was my favorite JRPG.

@Iceman2913 said:

" I can't really comment since my ps3 is being fixed, but judging based on reviews and ect.. FF13 is a better game imo "

So you're saying that FFXIII is a better game, in your opinion, based on others opinions? lmao.

14 years ago

zombie2011

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#18 Edited By zombie2011

@Akeldama said:

" I thought Lost Odyssey was basically broken...Wasn't that the general consensus? Am I thinking about a different game? "

I don't know what your talking about LO wasn't at all broken.

14 years ago

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#19 Edited By Meowayne

I, for one, agree with most of what you said.

Except where you try to propose that anything positive can be said about Lost Odyssey's story, storytelling or voice acting. That's just silly.

14 years ago

Iceman2913

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#20 Edited By Iceman2913

@xyzygy:
Yes, that sums it up I am using reviews there is nothing wrong with that

14 years ago

luce

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#21 Edited By luce

I hate comparisons. Why does one game have to be better than the other?

14 years ago

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#22 Edited By xyzygy

@Iceman2913 said:

" @xyzygy: Yes, that sums it up I am using reviews there is nothing wrong with that "

If you say so.

14 years ago

black100

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#23 Edited By black100

It almost appears as if most of the people here haven't played FFXIII.

Concerning a comment about three specific characters in FFXIII, if you had played the game to completion you would of known that all three of those characters go through fairly large amounts of character development and by the end almost all of their ideals have changed in some shape or form. For instance Hope evolves from simply wishing to become stronger to realizing that the help of others is required or else he simply won't be able to make it.   The other character all go under similar transformation.

About the Voice acting.......The acting in LO is absolutely terrible. I can't even play the game around friends because all the actors sound like they are from an anime in the late 90's. It's truly terrible and embarrassing.    At least with FFXIII, it appears they got actual talent for the VO.

Graphics....yeah if you think LO looks better, then I have nothing to say. Everyone is entitled to their opinion

One thing I always notice is the majority of people believe that More Complexity = Better story. That is NOT true, in fact for the most part, the more complex you get, the more the story suffers.

Look at some of the greatest stories ever written: like Beowulf or Hamlet. Both of those stories are fairly straight forward yet they are considered legendary classics. Another to add is Odyssey, the overarching story is fairly straightforward, yet it is one of the most powerful stories ever written.

If you can't understand the point I'm backing, then I suggest you read more books.

And btw, I don't think FFXIII holds a candle to any of the stories I listed earlier, I'm just making a point. (I haven't beaten FFXIII yet, same with LO so I can't really compare the stories)

14 years ago

Cristofyr

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#24 Edited By Cristofyr

I don't think either one is a particularly good example of the RPG genre.

LO is so traditional and conservative you wonder if the designers even believe in fire. Nearly every complaint that is usually lodged against the JRPG genre is found in that game: Menu overload, annoying child-characters, random battles, cutscene fatigue etc.

FFXIII on the other hand, experiments to the point that I'm not even sure who the game's intended audience is. I prefer a bit more "traditional" experience in my RPGs, so I'm not that crazy about it. That said, I don't really think it breaks the mold enough to appeal to people outside the traditional RPG fan base.

The FF series is kind of like The Beatles: they try out a lot of new stuff. Sometimes you get something great like "All You Need is Love", and other times you end up with "Revolution 9".

14 years ago

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#25 Edited By ZenaxPure

@xyzygy: ToE? I honestly have no memory of what that stands for but if it has any achievements attached to it chances are I've done it. If there aren't any achievements with it... I don't really care to be honest.

14 years ago

Cornman89

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#26 Edited By Cornman89

@black100 said:

" Look at some of the greatest stories ever written: like Beowulf or Hamlet. Both of those stories are fairly straight forward yet they are considered legendary classics. "

If you think Hamlet is anything even approaching straightforward, you must be out of your fucking mind.

14 years ago

Jost1

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#27 Edited By Jost1

Lost Odyssey is a phenomenal game. I don't know if it's better than FFXIII or not. They're both great.

14 years ago

Nasar7

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#28 Edited By Nasar7

I haven't gotten a chance to play FF XIII yet but you already know how I feel about Lost Odyssey...

14 years ago

rargy

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#29 Edited By rargy

At the time, Lost Odyssey never felt like a jrpg to me. But after reading some of this thread i can see how it is.. Still enjoyed it enough to want a sequel.

14 years ago

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#30 Edited By ZenaxPure

@rargy:
I highly doubt we will ever get another LO but hopefully The Last Story will be from the same vein and will be a success... I mean it gives people a reason to "dust off their Wiis" or whatever.

14 years ago

gla55jAw

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#31 Edited By gla55jAw

@xyzygy said:

" @gla55jAw said:
" For me Final Fantasy XIII, graphics wise, blows LO away. You cannot compare the cut-scenes at all. Just look at the character models and hair of the characters in LO, it's not even close. The voice acting in LO is good, but compared to FFXIII it's cheesy. Character wise, LO has characters that are more developed, but in FFXIII the characters mean more to us and you care more about them personally. Both great games though. Still havn't finished FFXIII, or for that matter LO (on disk 4). I think I'm leaning towards FFXIII as the better game so far though. "
LO voice acting is cheesy compared to FFXIII? Have you even listened to Vanille, or Hope, or Snow? God, they only talk about one or two things:

Snow: Serah, being a hero.

Hope: Getting stronger.

Vanille: Sticking together and overcoming challenges.

I'm not talking about the script, I'm talking about the voice acting. Kaim doesn't change his emotion, Jansen is always comic relief, etc. The FF characters are more lifelike. Also Vanille doesn't bother me at all. Also I'm not arguing, just voicing my opinions.

14 years ago

WinterSnowblind

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#32 Edited By WinterSnowblind

@Falsate said:

" 1. It's hardly a Final Fantasy anymore.2. No shops or towns. 3. Far too linear, I don't mind linearity in games but this takes it to whole new level. 4. You where under constant attack. 5. Weak story. 4 out of 5 of these statements are trivial and I personally felt (in my opinion) your standards for an RPG are frivolous. If you know every Final Fantasy is intended to be devised differently and seek change with every instalment, don't expect the game design and writing to harbor similarities let alone the series staples. The game mechanics have always been changed around and World Maps look ridiculous in this generation of Gaming. I can only imagine World Maps being much more convivial in the Playstation One era. It is entirely possible to make World Maps, look at it from a Game Designer's point of view. If Towns pose no relevance to the story, then there's no point in crafting any in vain especially in a cumbersome HD generation. Fact: There are shops in Final Fantasy XIII. Gil is the currency used and you can buy Materials and Items. You're trying to circumvent the definition of Shops and base it off its predecessors which again is pointless. The environments in Final Fantasy XIII were all hand crafted and unique; better than any other game I've seen especially in the Cities and Natural habitats. I can say the mythos of fal'Cie and l'Cie is purely something distinguishable in the series, but falls short with tacit potential. "

I do agree that Final Fantasy has gotten where it is today by not relying on the tried and true formula and knowing when to shake things up. However, I also believe that with the recent games these attempts have completely fallen flat.

Lost Odyssey is a shining example of how world maps can still work in games today.. For a good chunk of the game you progress rather linearily, much like the recent Final Fantasy games. Starting area takes you to town, leave town head to path, path leads to forest, forest leads to cave, and so forth. It plays out like one huge interconected world.. until you gain access to a ship which allows you to sail (and later fly) around these areas and essentially take shortcuts to each one, and can then continue to explore it as one huge world. This is definitely more complex than it sounds, and I'm sure the designers must have taken a lot of time to get this to work, but the fact is that it does, and there's no reason Final Fantasy couldn't have done the same.

I'd also disagree with things like towns and shops being "trivial". For me exploration has always been one of the key elements to an RPG. Wondering around, discovering new areas, finding new towns with new things to sell. FFXIII completely elminates these ideas and rather than feeling streamlined or innovative.. It feels lazy and uninspired. I'd also critisize the characters for this, instead of having any real kind of character development they simply give you five moderatly unlikable personalities who improve as the game progresses. It's extrodinarily formuliac, lazy and predictable, with almost every single one of them paralleling a character from the previous games.

Personally, I'd much rather play a traditional RPG like Lost Odyssey.. or something that can take the classic fundamentals of an RPG and modernize them, like Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age. Final Fantasy XIII falls somewhere inbetween and just fails flat out on both fronts.

14 years ago

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#33 Edited By xyzygy

@Zenaxzd said:

" @xyzygy: ToE? I honestly have no memory of what that stands for but if it has any achievements attached to it chances are I've done it. If there aren't any achievements with it... I don't really care to be honest. "

Oh sorry, it's the Temple of Enlightenment. It's full of insanely hard enemies, some which can kill you in one hit until you get into the level 90's. If you're looking for a challenge, that's where it's at. You need to go in there to get some things for the Treasure Trove achievement, damn that one was a pain.

14 years ago

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#34 Edited By ZenaxPure

@xyzygy: Oh yep, I cleared the entire thing - without ever dying too.... I had to go there for the master of skill achievements (for the immortals to get some accessories). The only "hard" part I personally found with it was actually finding my way around the damn place. LO's combat was just to easy because of how OP you could make immortals. Seriously by the time I was going after optional bosses every immortal had 9999 HP (except for Ming because I never used her so she was underleveled) and the skills for: absorbing physical damage, reducing phys damage to 0, aborning magic damage, reducing magic damage to 0, and "total defense" when it critical HP. It was almost statistically impossible to die.

Actually the only reason I don't have Professor K. done yet is because I fought him for like 2 hours without either of us managing to kill each other and I just got kind of bored. After that I decided to find a working strategy for him online (which is totally bizarre) and plan to go back to it sometime... but FF13 and Borderlands has all my time atm :P

14 years ago

Akeldama

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#35 Edited By Akeldama

@zombie2011 said:

" @Akeldama said:
" I thought Lost Odyssey was basically broken...Wasn't that the general consensus? Am I thinking about a different game? "
I don't know what your talking about LO wasn't at all broken. "

Meh. I payed no attention to it and from what I had heard, it wasn't that great.

14 years ago

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#36 Edited By Meowayne

LO is so traditional and conservative you wonder if the designers even believe in fire. Nearly every complaint that is usually lodged against the JRPG genre is found in that game: Menu overload, annoying child-characters, random battles, cutscene fatigue etc.

And yet there is a huge crowd of people (including me) who hold it in the highest regard for not straying from the formula and delivering the first true JRPG experience since Final Fantasy X.

JRPGs are often criticised for a lack of innovation when, in fact, I don't really know any JRPG fan that isn't annoyed by the overabundance of bad/half-assed innovation that has been put upon the genre since the end of the nineties.

Lost Odyssey is basically a PSX Final Fantasy game. That's why its awesome. It even uses carefully crafted environments with fixed camera perspectives. How brilliant is that?

It could have been epic if they hired the same sort of talent for the actual game script / cinematography than they did for the Dreams.

14 years ago

deactivated-590b7522e5236

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#37 Edited By ZenaxPure

@Meowayne: I am a "JRPG" fan not annoyed by the overabundance of good/well implemented innovation that has been put into the genre since the end of the nineties. I liked what worked yesterday as much as the next fan but my favorite games from the genre have been from 2000+ not before. Nostalgia can get fucked for all I care.

So there, now you know one.

14 years ago

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#38 Edited By deactivated-590b7522e5236

Some points made by the OP seem a little off, but it looks like its time to go back and finish lost odyssey

14 years ago

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#39 Edited By Meowayne

Zenaxzd: Thanks. :)

Watching gametrailers Lost Odyssey review right now. Man, there are so many things this game did so well... Such a shame about the script.

It certainly owns XIII in terms of level design, music (!), customization and diversity. Still, very difficult to compare the two. One is a Final Fantasy game, the other is not.

14 years ago

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#40 Edited By ZenaxPure

@Meowayne: Yes the game did many things well, it was well polished and plays better than most RPGs that have came out this gen. Like I said earlier in the thread I really enjoyed the game but I don't want every game to be like it came out on the SNES. I can understand why some people (like yourself) would want that, but there is no need to hate on evolution. There has been plenty of well made and new-feeling "JRPGs" since those days and if they don't tickle your fancy then don't play 'em and don't hate 'em. The DS and PSP has plenty of traditional turn based RPGs if that's your thing.

I, however, welcome new ideas (for any genre) since taking old ideas and putting major twists into it is exciting. As for LO "owning" 13 in the categories you mentioned the only I can honestly agree with is music, but c'mon LO had Nobuo which is like comparing a high-class orchestra to some 6th grader on his clarinet you can't beat the master of music. Like I said though, totally different games, since X FF has been all about innovation. LO is a current gen SNES RPG.

14 years ago

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#41 Edited By Meowayne

Changing things up just for the heck of it isn't "innovation". I kinda like XIII, certainly more than XII, but it sure as heck isn't innovative, especially not outside of combat.

I welcome change in every genre with open arms. I really do. I LOVE being surprised and engaged in games in new ways that I haven't before. I just don't feel this is really happening in the JRPG genre; it doesn't try to innovate or reinvent itself, it tries to "fix" things that people complain about who didn't like the genre to begin with - Taking out elements and replacing them with simpler things in a sad attempt to become more "streamlined" or "modern".

I wish JRPGs would become modern - in the one way where they are still painfully old. The script. I wish JRPG characters would stop being fortune cookies on legs and start talking like actual human beings. Playing JRPGs feels like japanese developers were locked in a windowless room for their entire life and only know about "people" and "emotions" from fairy tales and tabloids. Playing Final Fantasies VII and XIII simultanously at the moment, I realized that those PSX games were every bit as awkward and cheesy as LO and FFXIII - it just isn't nearly as bad when it isn't presented in bad cinematography with cheesy lighting and camera work, and VAs.

The way I see it, japanese RPG developers - or the japanese crowd they are developing for - are so irreversibly out-of-touch with reality and modern gaming that they shouldn't try. Lost Odyssey is good because it didn't try.

14 years ago

calidan777

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#42 Edited By calidan777

FFXIII's linearity disqualifies it from being an RPG. Role playing games are all about exploration, deep character development and and great side stories, and FFXIII has none of these and if you disagree with me then you either a) haven't played FFXIII or b) are letting your feelings about the series keep you from seeing the truth.

14 years ago

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#43 Edited By Meowayne

calidan, wrong thread.

14 years ago

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#44 Edited By ZenaxPure

@Meowayne: I think script discussion is just too subjective, just too many factors involved alongside personal taste. I agree a lot of them are pretty awkward but I like it. The characters don't feel "real" like you or myself I suppose but it shouldn't. Their worlds are "fairly tales and tabloids" if FF13 or LO tried to make all the characters super-realistic it just wouldn't be interesting which you sort-of point out yourself. However, I feel there is a difference in believable and realistic and many "JRPGs" since the SNES and PS1 days have done a great job at making their cast feel believable - which FF13 and LO both do quite well imo. But again, like I said that is all subjective to what one wants from their game.

On the other hand "changing for the sake of changing isn't innovation" I agree it isn't, it is refinement. On one hand I could call the combat in FF13 refinement but at the same time it feels very much like innovation. Outside of the combat though? It is all just refined ideas from FFX. Much like LO is a refined PS1 RPG. Still, plenty of other Japanese developed RPGs have innovated this generation of consoles and there have been good results.

Really though it boils down to what you want to define "innovative" as. The direct definition is adding something new but to be realistic almost no game adds something absolutely fresh and new they simply take ideas and attempt to refine them into a fun/cool/working experience which I feel "JRPGs" have absolutely been doing since the nineties. Not sure I can agree with it tries to "fix" itself where people who don't even play the genre complain though. That statement is just too much of a generalization for me - I mean "JRPGs" is the most diverse genre out there (which is why the term JRPG is absolute garbage). You go into every FPS knowing you're going to shoot dudes with guns(for example), these JRPGs on the other hand just differ in so many ways even trying to list some is pointless. It is so blatantly obvious, I mean compare FF13 to RoF that came out this past week, the 2 have almost nothing in common.

14 years ago

Belonpopo

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#45 Edited By Belonpopo

@lucas_kelly: Great Blog.

14 years ago

Doctorchimp

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#46 Edited By Doctorchimp

Well first off...

Isn't this the same guy that said Mass Effect 2 wasn't a great game and/or Mass Effect 1 was better? I can't remember all the details.

Second off, to say Lost Odyssey is the better game because it sticks to more traditional JRPG roots is itself a very niche opinion. That is the equivalent of me saying No Country for Old Men was a horrible movie compared to Benji Unleashed because there were no animals. I know that's your opinion, but the way you presented it was almost like it was a very valid point, when it's really not.

Someone can tell me they liked Bayonetta a lot more than God of War 3 because they enjoyed the deeper gameplay in the combat. That's a very valid point but to say God of War 3 is the worse game because, I don't know, Bayonetta has more hair isn't logical reasoning. When they developed God of War 3 Kratos is bald so he can't have hair powers. Same thing with FFXIII they weren't going for a traditional JRPG game so to complain about that is silly. I won't play FFXIII at least for awhile. It really doesn't have to do with the actual gameplay though, more like I don't know how well I can take walking in a straight line into some cookie-cutter anime moments for a long while till things get better. I've also noticed every time I post that about the story and how the cutscenes are presented in super melodramatic fashion no one seems to disagree. That really scares me off of wanting to play it.

Same goes for Lost Odyssey b ut more in terms of gameplay I played it for a couple hours and it just reminded me I was over games like that, like 2D platformers when I hit 11 they just weren't fun to me anymore. But I'm sure I can play it and I will when I have a good stretch of time as long as I give it another go.

14 years ago

lucas_kelly

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#47 Edited By lucas_kelly

@black100 said:

About the Voice acting.......The acting in LO is absolutely terrible. I can't even play the game around friends because all the actors sound like they are from an anime in the late 90's. It's truly terrible and embarrassing. At least with FFXIII, it appears they got actual talent for the VO.

I refuse to believe that you have even played the game for more than 5 minutes if you think the voice acting is absolutely terrible. And Talent? Well lets see. Lost Odyssey had Keith Ferguson, who has done voice overs for a lot of other games a TV shows, including FF XII and Kingdom Hearts. Tara Strong who has more than 270 credits on IMDB. Nika Futterman and Kath Soucie, who have both been doing voice overs for years.
Now lets look at Final Fantasy XIII, Hopes voice actor is an unknown who has done no voice acting before, Vanilles voice actor has hardly done any acting before let alone voice acting, same with Fangs's, all others have done some voice acting, but not a lot.

Lost Odyssey clearly has more "Talent".

14 years ago

SecondPersonShooter

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#48 Edited By SecondPersonShooter

This is unrelated, but did anybody notice that the ONE thing in Final Fantasy XIII that looks bad are people's fingers?

...It bothered me.

I needed somewhere to post it....

14 years ago

SecondPersonShooter

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#49 Edited By SecondPersonShooter

@lucas_kelly said:

" @black100 said:
About the Voice acting.......The acting in LO is absolutely terrible. I can't even play the game around friends because all the actors sound like they are from an anime in the late 90's. It's truly terrible and embarrassing. At least with FFXIII, it appears they got actual talent for the VO.
I refuse to believe that you have even played the game for more than 5 minutes if you think the voice acting is absolutely terrible. And Talent? Well lets see. Lost Odyssey had Keith Ferguson, who has done voice overs for a lot of other games a TV shows, including FF XII and . Tara Strong who has more than 270 credits on IMDB. Nika Futterman and Kath Soucie, who have both been doing voice overs for years.
Now lets look at Final Fantasy XIII, Hopes voice actor is an unknown who has done no voice acting before, Vanilles voice actor has hardly done any acting before let alone voice acting, same with Fangs's, all others have done some voice acting, but not a lot.

Lost Odyssey clearly has more "Talent".
"

Experience does not equal talent.

Also, he's right, the voice acting in Lost Odyssey is extremely sub-par. Gongora jumps out at me as being an over-the-top screaming villain. Honestly, from reading this blog, I feel like you haven't played Final Fantasy XIII all the way through...

Your music argument is also ridiculous. Final Fantasy XIII has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard (actually the ONLY video game soundtrack I ever went out of my way to get)

14 years ago

Cristofyr