I think I want to play Death Stranding

I love Metal Gear. It’s stupid, smart, serious, funny, and I don’t know how much of it is purposeful vs. half-luck. Kojima has retconned the story repeatedly, which is amazing and stupid at the same time.

The fiction keeps turning on its head and jumping through decades entwining real history with giant nuclear robots, vampires, and people being possessed by adopted cadaver limbs...or maybe not!

Anyhow, Metal Gear is amazing and its also bullshit. I think it’s unfair to call it one or the other. It’s both. I kinda wish Kojima would have ended V with “it was all just a dream, just to come full circle on the fuckery.”

I preamble this shit on the Death Stranding forum as I’m not sure if this new game will be amazing or a boring slog, but I guess it’ll be weird! Between Conan’s purposefully bad comedy, talk about sexy otter hats, and whatever the fuck Normal Reedus is doing with his hands...consider me interested?

Check this shit out:

https://mobile.twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/1187290189544050688

I think I was just sold on this horse shit. And good or bad, I’ll be okay with throwing money at this. I need to know for myself.

I expect Death Stranding to be “weird weird”, not “fun weird.” I think Kojima “fun weird” pretty much ended with MGS4? Peace Walker and MGS5 seemed to have a lot less goofiness, so even though Kojima can still have some fun here and there, I expect that trajectory to continue.

I also expect that, like MGS5, Death Stranding is going to be like 95% open world gameplay, grind for resources/money, etc., with only that small 5% of the game length being weirdo story cutscenes.

Based on Dan’s pointed, embargo-sidestepping comments, he’s not playing it and has time to play other games. So either:

A) he hates playing it and just stopped well before finishing it, or

B) he has finished it ahead of everyone else, which only seems possible if he basically skipped all side content and mainlined story progression. Which still sounds like he hated playing it and just wanted to see the story, or

C) the game is short enough that Dan just marathoned it more than the rest of the staff and is finished.

Either way, I expect it to not really be much like MGS. This seems like it’ll be the game that really tests whether Dan truly loves Kojima’s work, or really only specifically likes the MGS series.

Personally if something interests me I need to see it for myself, people can often be hyperbolic when it comes to praising or criticizing a game. (Dan often does this) So I wouldnt take much stock in that. If money is a concern maybe wait for reviews, otherwise just go for it.

I managed to derive some enjoyment out of Mass Effect Andromeda and Metal Gear Survive, both games were portrayed as being steaming trash when they're actually fine, just not anywhere near on the same level of the games that preceded them. I think Death Stranding might be like that for me.

The only game I wish I stayed the hell away from was Fallout 76, but thankfully I waited for it to be cheap, which didnt take long.

@bisonhero: From the tone of his comments, it's A. And not only did he hate it and quit, sounds like he also spoiled something in it for Jeff B in his ranting about how much he hated it.

I think the story might be crazy and fun, but the actual gameplay truly unbearable.

I probably won't buy it day one, I'll likely still be playing Outer Worlds. But I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. Combat, as a mechanic in games, has been broken down in every possible way. Critical hits, damage per second, area effect etc. Why not make traversal and exploration the focus of the game by making the mechanics more compelling? I personally like exploration more than fighting in games generally.

I loved MGS V, but it wasn't a smooth ride to the finish. I did have to take a break from it for a while. There's definitely a risk that Death Stranding may go too far. Still, it's exciting that someone is taking chances and trying something new with a game of this scope.

At one point I was in the "it could be bad, but I'm going to play it anyway so I might as well preorder" camp, but recent buzz has put me off.

Cancelled the order last week and will wait for reviews. If it turns out to be decent, I'll buy it later.

I'm really trying not to shit on this game too much, especially before it's out, but man, based on what I've seen of it, I don't want to play Death Stranding at all. That's not to say that this will equate to the game being objectively bad or anything, but it looks 100% not for me. I do, however, want to watch a playthrough of it and remain intrigued by it, because it's at least interesting and different and I can respect that.

From a gameplay standpoint, though, yeesh. Unless I'm completely missing something, the mere act of traversal basically IS the gameplay, with some survival meter maintenance bullshit and the occasional combat thrown in as a punishment fail state for some likely terrible stealth sections. I cannot imagine that making your DigiReedus amble across the landscape with magic ladders hoping for likes will remain engaging. And this is coming from a guy who has enjoyed exploration/traversal in games like No Man's Sky and Lifeless Planet and stealth in HITMAN and Splinter Cell.

Those things CAN be fun if done well. I like atmosphere, but it needs to really hit there if the game is going to lean on it as much as this appears to. The environments and the soundtrack have to be great to pull that off. Death Stranding's Isle of Skye-esque terrain is admittedly pretty, but seemingly looks fairly same-y and consistent throughout, and I don't know what part of America it's supposed to represent. As for the soundtrack, it seems like Kojima has already used and overused his best song in all the promotional stuff to where it won't be impactful. "Everyone cries here."

Moreover, I don't see this striking the right note even with Kojima superfans. It seems tonally very self-serious apart from the obsession with Reedus bodily fluids, which isn't so much funny as it is disturbing. (Especially Sam's Private Room. Jesus.) The story looks more MGSV than MGS3, and it isn't helping that Kojima is literally shoehorning in random celebrities he likes. It doesn't look action-y or silly enough for the Dan types, and for everyone else, I have zero faith in Kojima putting together a coherent narrative that's actually deep/thought-provoking.

I can't really figure out who this is for, aside from Kojima himself. He is clearly having fun making this as he pals around with celebrities and has created this truly unsettling Reedus voyeurism vehicle, all the while propping himself up as some apparent indie underdog despite the pile of cash he's been handed by Sony to make this thing as a giant studio of devs slave away behind him. Whether Kojima's Fun Time translates into a quality product for others to enjoy remains VERY much in question for me.

I truly hope I'm wrong and that everyone hyped about this isn't let down. I hope Kojima somehow has played it closer to the vest than it appears for the game to feature a bunch of cool shit that hasn't been revealed yet, and that he manages to execute on the narrative and tone in ways he rarely does. I'm not optimistic, though. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, and I'm at least interested to watch it play out however it's going to.

@notnert427: I don’t think it looks good. I won’t be surprised if I spend $60 or whatever on it and hate it.

It just looks batshit, and I kinda want to check it out just to say “Good fucking God, man! What the hell is any of this!”

It seems like the best “curiosity” game since The Quiet Man.

@nutter: It being batshit nonsense is pretty much guaranteed, so I totally get where you're coming from there. I definitely look forward to beholding whatever the fuck this game is, and I'm glad it exists. The world needs shit like this way more than it needs, say, another probably bad Need For Speed game, so I guess I'm somewhat hyped in that sense, but I personally don't want to play it because it just looks pretty boring to me from a gameplay standpoint.

I don't see this being a Quiet Man-style trainwreck, though. Part of me wishes it was that style of thing where the makers play it 100% straight thinking they're making high art and it turns out to be pure dogshit, but Kojima usually somewhat hedges his pretentiousness with some silliness like the Conan thing, and to his credit, his games generally have enough polish graphically or otherwise to avoid being truly "bad" games. Although it would be pretty great if this thing ends with incessant Reedus roundhouse kicks.

I do think that if Kojima tried to make a completely serious thing, it would be comically terrible. Death Stranding appears to lean more towards serious than his typical game, so there's potential there. I'm most looking forward to his attempts at sharp political commentary here, because that is likely to be on the level of "kid who just took their first polisci class" preachy banality, and that sounds pretty good, especially given that he's going to have to attempt to weave it within the tube babies on the moon narrative and that Kojima doesn't appear to have even a tenuous grasp of the concept of subtlety. I look forward to meeting DemocratMan.

There's likely to be quite a bit that will prevent this game from being objectively "good" as well. Fragile and Mama are already a little :cringe in terms of how they'll represent women. I also don't see the slog of the gameplay meshing well with whatever the story is. It seems like the player is going to spend probably too much time trudging across barren space to take a thing to a place, at which point you'll get some probably way-too-long cutscene info dumps. If that's indeed the pacing, it will struggle to keep people engaged.

I know I'm making a bunch of assumptions here, and maybe Kojima pulls some of this stuff off better than I expect, but I've seen enough of the guy's work to temper my expectations. It sounds like you're going into this thing with a good mindset, and we seem to mostly be on the same page in terms of what we're looking to get from Death Stranding. I'm just not sold enough to devote $60 and a fair bit of playtime to it. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it soon enough once the actual game is out there.

@notnert427: Yeah, I meant Quiet Man more for its weirdness. There was an immediate sense of “what are you people even trying to accomplish, here?”

I get that Kojima has a sterling track record. I love the MGS series. I love the melodrama mixed with politics, and the self-seriousness mixed with vampires, dudes crapping themselves, etc.

I love that Kojima (or Kojima Productions) bothered to make recurring-guard-who-has-diarrhea into a character with a story and a retconned reason for his routinely goofy behavior and upset stomach....AND GAVE HIM AN ARC!!!

So yeah, I’m not coming down on Death Stranding, I don’t think...

I think it’s bizarre. I think a lot of the ideas seem terrible. I’m not into micro-management and I’m not into survival games. It just all seems so looney that how can I not check it out?

And yeah, while I appreciate his melding of geopolitical issues wit bat-shit nonsense, I’m not expecting anything enlightening. He just has a bananas way of marrying disparate things that brazenly swing from overwrought melodrama to goofy cornball bullshit, and it usually works in a weird way. His stuff is fun to sit in front of.

Oddly, I think MGSV is his only game that plays well (and it happens to play brilliantly), and that was the one game where the story was a mess in a really bad way.

As for getting to it, I hope I have time this year. I’ve only purchased two games this year (and I’ve played a few on Gamepass). I guess while I won’t dedicate time another Need for Speed or whatever, a Kojima game still demands my attention, even if I’m skeptical about how much I’ll like it.

I think this is the first time I've been more excited to hear what someone has to say about a game than to actually play it.

Yeah, I got the vibe from this week's Beastcast that Dan is NOT a fan of Death Stranding at all. I'm not surprised either, because the last demo the game had seemed dull as hell.

I kind of have a bizarre fascination with it on the one hand because it just seems so weird and I'm a sucker for weirdness. On the other, the cult of Kojima is really putting me off anything that dude is attached to.

I get some proper Kevin Costner vibes from him now. Like, someone's given him the budget and he's free from the shackles of the Metal Gear fiction .... so he's making The Postman.

Strangely enough the most receptive audience I've seen to the footage of Death Stranding have been the people with an affinity for hiking. The game really looks like it takes time to get anywhere and, since the scenery is beautiful, it might be more fulfilling to be filled with wanderlust than completing any meaningful objectives.

I don't care if it's good or bad, I'm 100% playing this on release. The trailers have sold me hard on the batshit premise and that's enough for me to wanna play it.

Death Stranding keeps making me think about the Stonemilker - Bjork video.

That's all.

@shindig: You know...I thought The Postman was okay.

Waterworld, I’m not going to bat for that shit.

@joedangerous: I’m a backpacker. It’s been a couple of years (sports schedules and aging pets that are hard to find care for), but getting out and being off the grid for a few day, walking, enjoying nature, pushing yourself to exhaustion, finding usable water sources, making camp at night...it’s all just a really amazing experience.

...fucking backpacking in the dead of summer, though...I’ve gone below freezing and in 100 degree weather, a hat and a good sleeping bag will make the cold totally fine at night. Being unable to sleep due to heat though, that’s damned near inescapable.

@joedangerous: I’m a backpacker. It’s been a couple of years (sports schedules and aging pets that are hard to find care for), but getting out and being off the grid for a few day, walking, enjoying nature, pushing yourself to exhaustion, finding usable water sources, making camp at night...it’s all just a really amazing experience.

...fucking backpacking in the dead of summer, though...I’ve gone below freezing and in 100 degree weather, a hat and a good sleeping bag will make the cold totally fine at night. Being unable to sleep due to heat though, that’s damned near inescapable.

Anyhow, that aspect of the game intrigues me. I LOVED everything about The Flame and the Flood, too...

@joedangerous: I’m a backpacker. It’s been a couple of years (sports schedules and aging pets that are hard to find care for), but getting out and being off the grid for a few day, walking, enjoying nature, pushing yourself to exhaustion, finding usable water sources, making camp at night...it’s all just a really amazing experience.

...fucking backpacking in the dead of summer, though...I’ve gone below freezing and in 100 degree weather, a hat and a good sleeping bag will make the cold totally fine at night. Being unable to sleep due to heat though, that’s damned near inescapable.

Anyhow, that aspect of the game intrigues me. I LOVED everything about The Flame in the Flood, too...

I know this may seem brave of me to say so bluntly.. but I like Hideo Kojima and I too, want to play Death Stranding, whatever it ends up being.

He's totally banking on the whole 'hey look at me, I'm craycray and meta!' thing really hard here. I don't blame him tbh, he's stuck/typecasted into that kinda thing now. We just expect it.

The game basically looks like a trucking simulator without any trucks and a lot of peeing on stuff.

I'm interested to see if that's actually what it is or if that's just some side stuff.

I'm also curious to see the extent of the game because ages ago, and who knows if this still holds true, Kojima stated that despite appearances Death Stranding isn't supposed to be like a full blown game. It would take ages to dig up but I think he tweeted this like in early 2018 or something. Then of course all these trailers started blowing up as well as all the actor cameos. So now I'm wondering if the scope of it has changed, or whether this is an extremely expensive side project that spiraled out of control.

Am i the only one who is more excited to watch the GB staff play it than actually play it myself?

Nothing i've seen or heard from the game seems interesting to me from a gameplay perspective.

Everything this game offers is kind of weird and interesting but only from a narrative perspective. As soon things about spending 50 hours just to get going to spend countless hours doing lots of weird shit i'm automatically turned off.

So yeah maybe it will be amazing. But it just doesn't seem like a game i will ever enjoy playing.

Dan changing his PSN nick from Diehardman (unless that was a joke) to another must be the ultimate sign of him not liking the game. Definitely looking forwards to this week’s Beastcast.

@glots: I’m always surprised by how much of a child Dan can be about these things - the Beastcast will either be interesting or absolutely terrible. Looking back on how Dan handled himself when criticizing Red Dead 2 I don’t have high hopes..

I can’t wait for the game. I hope it turns out to be EXACTLY what it looks like. I’m not reading any impressions come 11/1. Ive already taken launch day off from work

What they’ve shown is exactly the kind of game I’m looking for. Worst thing that could happen is it NOT be what it looks like it is

@humanity: Based on past situations, yeah, I can’t imagine Dan is going to be subdued in his discussion of Death Stranding. He seems to enter some mode of extra personal contempt for a game if it A) is associated with a brand he already wants to like [Red Dead, WWE, Kojima], and B) turns out to be a game that he doesn’t enjoy playing. The tone can make it pretty grating to listen to, even for criticisms that are generally valid.

And once this discussion comes up in GotY, it doesn’t help that I think rhetoric is just not one of Dan’s strengths. He knows how to do written reviews, and create entertaining goofy video content. When they start discussing opposing viewpoints on the same game, I think Dan is rarely good at presenting his position in a convincing manner, but can also be very stubborn about not conceding his position despite swaying very few other staff members. All I remember him trying to do is “catch” people on some minor semantic contradiction/hypocrisy, as if GotY is a Phoenix Wright game.

If I wouldn’t be on mobile for the next few hours, I’d make a review thread.

Anyway, having looked through a few, I don’t really have any trouble anymore to see why Dan would’ve stopped playing. His not-so-subtle ”Maybe RDR2 wasn’t so bad” speech from couple of weeks back seems accurate (at least for him) ’cause this sounds like it can be a whoooole lot more tedious than RDR2.

This will be one of the best games of the year, hands down.

@bisonhero: Yeah, Red Dead, Kojima, and WWE criticism from Dan, at least in podcast form, comes across as though he was personally accosted by the product. It’s a bit much to hear, and he lays it on way too thick.

It sounds like Death Stranding may be about as tedious as it’s always seemed, but I still want to check it out at some point

@frodobaggins: I would say it will probably be one of the most divisive games of the year for sure. One of the best? Not sure I can agree with that though.

@bmccann42: The reviews are already starting to kind of sway but not as wildly as I expected. Honestly from the first previews of gameplay I was certain this game would bomb score-wise across the board. There was a certain morbid fascination in seeing what it would be like if this game that has been so heavily marketed at this point across the globe suddenly got 1 star reviews from everyone. As it is some outlets like GameSpot and Kotaku seem to love it (watch the hour long Tim Rogers review on YouTube it is a treat) other places like IGN and GameInformer are much colder on it.

That said none of the major outlets downright hate it. Those that don't seem to love it, do seem to at least appreciate what it is going for in that 7/10 sort of way, and so far the reviews are skewing fairly positive.

It seems to be very much a No Mans Sky type of game where you need to find the personal investment/enjoyment in the experience on your own terms and meet the game halfway there. As someone that has been gaming for a long time now I am very eager to play it simply because it is something new. A few years ago I was still on-board with playing another well made Call of Duty game from year to year. With age though I'm starting to skew towards more unique experiences. There needs to be some sort of hook for me whether it's gameplay, narrative, aesthetic.

He's just one of those reviewers who tends to drift into a tone of like this game isn't for me or has things I hate and that means it is TRASH, and you can preface that as much as you want with things like "Its just my opinion" but that overall tone never really changes and it can get a little grating.

Yeah i'm actually very surprised the reviews for this ended up so high. I expected it to hover around the 70/100 mark

Feels like this is gonna be another one of those games where it will speak to some people in a very specific way and they won't be able to stop gushing about it and everyone else just looks on a little bewildered.

It's kind of a year for games like that, it's kind of how I felt about Outer Wilds.

After watching some reviews this game just looks too tedious for me. It seems like they’ve implemented systems and extra cutscenes and monotonous things to just get in the players way.

@humanity: Sounds about what I am thinking, maybe divisive was the wrong word though. Conversation making is probably more accurate - I have loved reading the reviews on this game thus far.

I'm not a Metal Gear/Kojima guy, his schtick just doesn't work for me. The oddly immature themes mixed with high level concepts just turns me off, e.g. Johnny Sisaki from MGS4.

@bmccann42: Johnny is just a lovable goof and the way he tries to tie it all together showing you flashbacks of the one soldier with diarrhea in every MGS game is kind of hilarious how much he commits to the bit. Like when you think about it, this guy decided to devote precious time and resources on this storyline of a soldier having the runs, it’s amazing. Most of the time I just think the stuff he does is funny in a goofy way. I’ve never been offended by his stuff because I don’t think it ever comes from a malicious intent.

@humanity: I don't know, it just doesn't work on me. Not offensive, I just find it kind of dumb and kind of pointless.

Kojima stuff just doesn't work on me, sad to say. I have an odd sense of humour (the joys of being on the autism spectrum), so maybe that's the issue.

@bmccann42: Hey man sure not everything will work with everyone, thankfully there are so many games out there!

Yeah, from the reviews I've read, it seems like a game some will love for the same reason as some people hate it. Going by Twitter that I just read on Alex's page, I am expecting around two stars honestly. I feel like getting it, but honestly, right now it's very hard for me to tell if the 'hook' of the game is going to grab me and immerse me. I think it's interesting that some say it's Dark Souls, but instead of difficult combat, it's difficult traversal. Is that something that'll make me go 'wow, I've never felt so immersed in traversing a beautiful game world before!' or 'fuck, this sucks. I have to deal with all these packages, and I'm tripping on the smallest of things. And this is almost the entire game!' I want to experience the world that was created, the sound design, and see how the story turns out, but I am kind of worried that the package delivery aspect could hinder some of that want to relax in the game world.

@jonrambo: The stuff about prepping for a trip, distributing load, and just traversing sounds cool, to me, on paper.

It’s a bummer to hear the Beastcrew rag on the stealth. I feel like this being a backpacking Postman game where the combat is replaced by a solid stealth system could be cool.

Keeping an eye out, looking for signs of trouble, deciding on fast vs. safe routes.

Again, I think the system for spotting and avoiding conflict (and maybe rarely engaging), would have to be really engaging. Hell, if it played like Splinter Cell or MGSV, that’d sound cool to me.

When i think about Johnny Sasaki, i feel like other games would just go for some faceless guard with 0 personality. I greatly prefer MGS' choice. Making it a running joke that he (& his family members) all suffer from a weak stomach is a cute nod to fans that played the earlier games. Propping him up into an actual character at the end helps to have a character to do comic relief stuff to put some levity between all the drama. He's basically MGS4's Yamcha. Something that i'm always in for, whether it's in Yakuza or MGS or Fahrenheit(shoutout to Drew's extra life stream).

@onemanarmyy: I don't know. The Johnny Sasaki joke really bums me out. I never liked it, and I liked it even less when watching Metal Gear Scanlon and Dan spent four games going "Look! HE POOPED HIS PANTS!!!" and then cackling like an insane toddler.

In my head, it's the same genre of idiotic juvenile sensibility as having a super-elaborate plot reason why this sexy lady has to run around in a bikini the entire game. Or, if you crawl back and forth in a vent and spy on Meryl in MGS1, she has progressively less clothes on. They're all part of the same category, a box labelled "Hideo Kojima needs to grow the fuck up".

@efesell: I think part of it, with Dan, is that he’s genuinely excitable and buys into hype. When he’s excited about something and ends up disappointed, he’s like Twitter in audio form.

I’m curious how much he lobbies for Death Stranding as worst game, biggest disappointment, hottest mess, etc.

It’s not terrible. It makes for interesting radio, since he becomes the bad guy everyone has to diffuse. It reminds me of Abby’s-First-Deliberationgate, which was PAINFUL. The awesome part about that, is as bad a taste as it left in my mouth, she did what you do and learned from it. Frankly, it sounds like she took the feedback pretty hard, based on how often she says “I think” and “I feel” before any statements about games on the podcasts.

She’s young. She learned, she grew. Dan’s older and more of a character, but we’ve seen him mature (kinda) as well, even if that maturing was captured in the form of the “New Dan” bit.

Anyhow, hearing the opening of yesterday’s Beastcast had me looking forward to GOTY season around here!

@gkhan: I think there is always a flipside to this "growing up" complaint that people who genuinely don't like his stuff never really take under account. Like sure there is the going into the vent to see her do pushups in her underwear part, and even later in the game if you run back into a bathroom quick enough the entire cutscene plays out with Meryl in her undergarments as well. Plenty of examples of this stuff throughout all his games as well as other gags. That is what it is and depending on who you are it's gonna hit you differently. On the flipside in MGS4 Meryl is actually an incredibly strong female character that has a great story arc following through from MGS1. Her relation to Snake is especially handled well as she sees her "mentor" of sorts slowly dying in front of her eyes. In MGS3 you have the Boss who is one of the strongest female characters in gaming period and is not sexualized in any way unless you want to count the end part. Eva while sexual is revealed to have played every one of the male characters for fools in the end, outsmarting them using her by using her sexuality as a weapon - a commentary on her simple men can be.

I mean it's a very one dimensional and shortsighted way of looking at Kojima games to just see the lady in the bikini and say "see! What a pervert! This game needs to grow up!" and ignore all the other great characters he has developed over the years, especially since there simply aren't all that many well written female characters in gaming as a whole. Also you look at a game like Death Stranding and the story it's trying to tell, and then you compare it to like Gears 5 or any other major releases and yah, maybe the delivery is hit or miss at times, but at least it's saying something new and in my opinion interesting.