8-4 Play: 4/17/2015: WHOSE DAMN SHOW?

More Bloodborne talk! Never enough.

I enjoy this podcast.

"Fatality-gate"?

Don't tell me that is an actual thing.

love this podcast. hyped for more bloodborne talk

Nice to hear Garnett back on a podcast

Between Gamespot and Giantbomb I cant' take anymore bloodborne talk, pleasssseeeeeee

Garnett is right. Anyone who criticizes From games gets bombarded with incessant whining about how they only like casual games, how they want handholding, how they're not "manly," etc. etc. If it weren't for the years of the most toxic community harassing everyone who doesn't like their pet game, it would have about the same metacritic as Monster Hunter. But everyone wants their internet friends to think they're hardcore, and no one wants to be called a filthy casual, so... Bloodborne. Game of the year.

@orange_pork: Sorry if anyone made you feel bad for not liking the Souls games. That's a bullshit thing to do. I've always been a proponent of "if you're not loving it, stop, life is too short."

Souls games are incredibly dense, fantastic, unique experiences that are under-served by the more annoying segments of their audience.

There's lots of very smart talk about the Souls games and I'd weigh that heavier than the "lol noob git gud" contingent. If you care to weigh any of it at all.

If not, just do what you want. Like what you like and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it. We've all got our critically-acclaimed things that we hate. I think 2D zeldas are junk and the SNES is overrated as fuck.

Yeah Garnett was a bit annoying. I don't like how he dismissed Splatoon as a 'should be a downloadable title" He's dismissive and gives no argument to back up his opinion.

Not the best episode.

For those still not interesting in hearing about "Souls" games:

Time –Topic Discussed:

6:40 - Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc

15:06 – Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number

23:48 – Dragon Age: Inquisition

32:05 – Bloodborne

52:12 – Dark Souls II: Scholar Of The First Sin Edition, Destiny

1:00:00 – Neko Atsume

1:15:58 – Leve-5 Vision : Yo-kai Watch 3, Yo-kai Watch Busters, Yo-kai Watch x Three Kingdoms

1:23:55 – Layton 7, Fantasy Life, The Snack World

1:30:05 – Monster Hunter Stories, Star Ocean 5: Integrity and Faithlessness, Mortal Kombat X

1:44:10 – Guitar Hero Live, Quantum Break, New Xbox One Features, Tomb Raider

1:49:25 – LEGO Dimensions, Apple Watch

1:54:45 – Splatoon, TwitchCon, Shovel Knight, Project X Zone 2, Battle for Video Game Past

2:04:16 – Closing Comments

@psylockerules: Have you ever heard of a podcast called 1upYours? ;)

This is the post of a man whose been wanting to make this for years but didn't have the angle to pull it off till now.

He wants you to argue with him. Won't be so kind?

I don't think the metacritic argument holds any water. Demon's Souls, for definitely not being a big zeitgeist thing, has a score of 89 right now. Bloodborne has a 92. However much it's grown in popularity, that increase in score is not that notable. More likely, it's the tradition of giving games to people on staff that like that sort of game, which someone on the podcast mentioned and Jeff has talked about earlier. It might be a peer pressure thing that gets more people into it, though. Or maybe it's the rise of let's players that helped it? I thought the lack of save points sounded terrible and didn't play Dark Souls until Vinny played through the last half of it on camera. The games explain their basic systems poorly, so having someone explain them to you on camera helps. And then, when you try the games for yourself, there are tons of options so it doesn't feel like you're just following a guide.

It's interesting that they used the phrase "doesn't respect your time" about Souls games, because Patrick wrote an article about Inquisition on Kotaku with something similar to that title. Despite the ways Inquisition ties gathering all the shards in one area into the main quest, that just feels like filler anyway to a lot of people. The context for them is not as important as what you're actually doing, which are just these MMORPG gathering quests. But Patrick is good at Souls games and finds them relatively easy, so would he feel that Bloodborne was a bigger waste of his time if he was bad at it and he had to do everything ten times? Maybe? It's a dilemma, because you have to play Souls games for a while to see if they click with you(or watch let's plays), but that's a big timesink for something you might not like anyway if you're more into dialog trees, colored loot, unpunishing gameplay and straightforward storytelling. The checkpointing especially, lots of people can enjoy super difficult games if they respawn instantly in the same room. It surprised me that I don't mind the checkpoints in Souls games and I'm into them now, but it doesn't sound like Garnett will ever be. That's fine, he's certainly not alone.

(Mingleplayer is a great word for that type of multiplayer.)

If you don't know what the 'extraphalous' joke was about, get out!

Neko atsume has taken over my damn Twitter feed...with cuteness

It will be a downloadable title though, just like any game released now.

or......people just really like and resonate with a game you don't like? CRAZY

Listen I think GTA is the most overrated series in the entire video game history but I am not going to call out people that like it for "wanting to thug out" in fake reality. Lets not be reductive because you do not share the same opinion with the gaming majority. Whatever the hell that means anymore.

and Garnett, my man, what you are trying to describe dangan ronpa as is call a visual novel. Just because you don't like most visual novel does not mean you can just re-categorize ones that you do like because you don't want to admit that fact. Good episode again 8-4.

Interesting, never knew there's that much of a divide between the JRPG and the TES style rpg crowd. This is the second time I heard one side slamming the other within a month. The previous encounter swung the opposite way both crowds being (fairly?) die hard RPG fans.

Only thing for both side is I absolutely don't get why people are so hung up on TES combat? IMO it is meant to be simple. You aren't playing a character action game, this isn't God of War. In classic JRPG you pick what your character do attack or magic or item and stats determine their effects, similarly for old western rpg with dice roll, but once combat get a little more hands on and real-time people start to freak out with the concept that a great deal of your character is still determine by their stats and skills. Your ability to pull off head shots and twitch reaction are not part of the equation.

Funny thing about the whole Souls/Bloodborne thing. Demon's Souls took GOTY 2009 in Gamespot and I think Dark Souls was pushed really hard in Gamespot for GOTY 2011. That was the year of Skyrim, Portal 2, Batman, Saints Row 3. Is it really that surprising that Bloodborne is this well received years later when the "secret" of these games are out?

I think this argument and garnett's argument is reductive. Every game with a following have those youtube-esque comments and from what I've seen the community within the souls games have been fairly helpful and understanding. I'm also not one to call out other people, but I don't think this comment is any less toxic than what you're criticizing really.

The talk about "buy-a-fatality" was kind of hilarious. JJ and John got so butt-hurt over something that doesn't matter at all. I agree completely that it's lame and buying those consumables would be lame, but if you suck that bad at the game you're rarely going to get to even use those tokens online so that's a non-issue and if they use it in the SP, like Garnett says, who cares?

The Bloodborne/From Soft talk was kind of interesting. I kind of agree with Garnett that the Souls games are one of the few games that no hipster "I-hate-the-popular-stuff" reviewer is going to trash because it's loved by that crowd. Even as they got more and more popular, they're still kind of minor hits sales wise and coupled with the difficulty people wear playing those games as some kind of badge of honor. Personally I have no problem with the games apart from when they go out of their way to obfuscate stuff just for the fuck of it. The same people that fawn over that in a Souls game would bitch and moan about it in nearly any other game. They like it in these four games because it's novel. If every game did it, it would be annoying as fuck.

Loved them ending the show with "Le Perv". Such a good track.

Really enjoyed this episode. I don't entirely agree with Garnett but I've always enjoyed his presence on podcasts.

Garnett, come on man. Not a game? Can we get rid of this as a criticism? All games are games.

This is the very best video game podcast. I've started listening to the old episodes... sooo good!

Err yea this Garnett fellow is pretty overbearing.. Can't remember if I've heard him on here before but perhaps he was the same person who I felt this same way about last time.

Dat Sizzler song at the end though. I'm dying here.

Great podcast but man...Garnett is still jerking hard on Neogaf. Back in the day on the 1Up podcast it would annoy me that he'd take more cues, and questions, from Neogaf threads than he would the site's own community and forum. I still love GL though and it was great having him on...I miss his podcast work since Weekend Confirmed stopped. I've never understood the hype, or importance, some people give Neogaf.

Fatalities are not difficult to pull off. They are very, very, very easy button combinations. While I think it is gross that cheat codes are just paid DLC now, if someone is stupid enough to buy them then whatever. As long as I don't have fewer fatalities, or the lack of them, because of stuff like this then I don't care.

In regards to the reviews and Bloodborne talk, GL is wrong. Jeff and Brad have discussed this on the Bombcast before but almost all sites now just have their guy/girl who has history with/likes a certain game. If a person hates sports and sports games then its a bad idea to have him review Madden. The same goes for Bloodborne. Guess who reviewed Call of Duty? Jeff, the only COD guy on the staff. Who would have reviewed Bloodborne? Probably Brad or Vinny, but Dan has been a "souls guy" since DS2 so we have several "Souls guys" on staff.

Either way, great episode.

Psylockerules GL was right about Splatoon: no matter how good that game is it will never really do that well because its on the WiiU and its on disc (aka, its overpriced). While I don't know that $20 is the more appropriate price point, I do think $30-40 would be fine...but not a $60 boxed game. If this were coming out across PC and all consoles, I'd have a slightly different opinion.

Oh man what an awesome surprise hearing garnett lee on a podcast again! I need to start listening to 8-4 more often!

@redhotchilimist: Yeah, all the Souls games have been around 90 on Metacritic.

Also yeah, I disagree with Garnett when it comes to having a dissenting opinion on Bloodborne. It's true that the Souls games have an notoriously annoying fanbase, the "git gud" stuff is a meme for a reason, but this very site has Jeff as someone who has always been "meh" on the franchise (and he still is even after playing a bunch of Bloodborne). Jason, who is a big fan of the Souls games, also seems disappointed by Bloodborne.

That's partially the case. The other half is incredibly reductive comments like your own which fuel messageboard flame wars. A lot of people on this site are huge fans of these games and they would all tell you that the difficulty angle is overblown and not the main reason they like the games. I wish there weren't legions of immature people writing hateful comments in defense of Dark Souls, I really do. It disrespects these games and by extension, myself and the rest of the Souls community. I wish most people could say "hey its not your thing, that's fine" and move on. But hey, that's not most people, even non Souls fans are guilty of that. I understand the backlash against these shitheads, but I have a hard time respecting all these criticisms when so many times I see a favorite game series of mine ripped to shreds and the entire fanbase labeled as toxic in the same breath. I'm tired of people thinking Souls fans have some kind of special power over the internet where they can silence all dissent (clearly its not happening), and that it couldn't possibly be the case that more and more people genuinely like these games. I'm fine with vilifying the internet jerks who leave no room for discussion, THEY DESERVE THAT. Anybody that criticizes your taste in games really does. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem on both sides though, is that the entirety of some Souls fans' opinions boil down to "fuck non souls fans" and people who dislike the game now have to proudly say "fuck souls fans." Neither is right, and it's all just a big bummer.

Can I just say how great the closing theme is? That's the Sizzler waaaaaay!

@nasar7: @eazeapeazea: Here's the video it came from if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3YGtQ40Qvs

I'm still baffled by the love for Dragon Age: Inquisition.

'All the things you do in that game really feel like they matter, it all clicks!'. I have the exact opposite opinion about that game, I have the feeling nothing matters at all. Very interesting to hear :)

Garnet really comes off as being a super impatient gamer in parts of this. "Why isnt the game constantly gratifying from moment one all the way to the end? A game that isn't fun the first 5 minutes you play is probably over-hyped garbage. Why do I have to play a less interesting part to get to an interesting part?" They have a game for that, it's called Call of Duty. .....

I dunno. I don't want to come across as super-hyper negative, but it kind of comes across as super disconnected and overly dismissive of certain experiences in games.

I want Sizzlers now. Also I'm proud of being an American. Thank you Sizzlers.

Garnett also said that he hasn't finished it yet, so he'll find out about that later.

NOTHING you do matters in this game, it's the complete opposite of what he said.

It's been a while since I've listened to Garnett on an Internet podcast. I appreciate the man's generally unwavering positivity, but I don't think I agree with his tastes.

I very much love Dragon Age: Inquisition. One of my favorite RPGs of all time.

Garnett was a great guest; super upbeat and straightforward.

I guess I didn't see the title where it said "Garnett Play, with special guests 8-4." Damn dude, shut the fuck up and let the conversation breathe