PSA: Abby is streaming Dark Souls II for the first time *right now*

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development

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#1  Edited By development

2pm-5pm EDT on Tuesdays + Wednesdays https://www.twitch.tv/ybbaaabby

Dark Souls 1 was a fun watch. DS2 is a disaster and it's so weird. I'm excited to see her reaction to it.

edit: Apology tour: I love DS2. I call it a disaster out of love. Most of the disaster is a result of time and budget cuts and not a real fault of the dev team. However the characters, game mechanics, and whole vibe are very goofy and weird and I stand by that. It's why it's so fun to see people experience it.

No backseating in Abby's chat!

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chaser324

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#2  Edited By chaser324  Moderator

Hope she doesn't look at chat. Dark Souls tends to bring out the worst.

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development

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@chaser324: Definitely. She had to yell at some fools for spoiling stuff / telling her what to do on several occasions during her DS1 playthrough. Seems some days are worse with that than others, too.

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Gundato

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I really dislike the mindset that "Dark Souls 2 is a disaster". Game has issues but a lot of that feels like the usual BS when the original "director" is no longer in charge (I want to say it was all hands on deck for Bloodborne?).

Dark Souls 2 is DEFINITELY a weird ass game though. And, ironically, it was the strongest precursor to Sekiro. Heavy emphasis on humanoid enemies. Some REAL bullshit encounters. And what we know of the original DS2 plot is that there was a VERY heavy emphasis on time travel and perception. Plus, the increased emphasis on The Dark Soul/Manus's Legacy is very reminiscent of the corruption in Sekiro

All THAT being said: I keep going back to it periodically (due for another go soon) but doubt I'll ever fully complete it again. Scholar of the First Sin makes the game a LOT more coherent but holy crap does it increase the bullshit encounters where you basically need a bow to pull the heavies.

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Onemanarmyy

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#5  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I played Dark Souls 2 Scholar of the First sin right after Dark Souls and i was getting my ass whooped quite a lot early on in that game. groups with 5-7 enemies closely packed together are quite hard to get through. While i could go through Dark Souls 1 without dying for hours.

After the initial area's SotFS started to feel more manageable, eventhough the amount of bosses felt like it ramped up compared to Dark Souls 1. I had to wait for the Dark Souls 2 DLC to feel things get quite difficult again. Quite an unusual difficult-curve for a game.

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#6  Edited By development

@gundato: sorry I actually agree. I use hyperbole too much. Used to be my favorite Souls game. There's just a lot of weirdness, different design ideas, and unfinished areas/ideas.

The Giants/Giants Memories in particular are really standout ideas to me. I love going back in time to places I've spent hours of time inside of in video games. Gives a real Zelda vibe.

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Humanity

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Dark Souls 2 is much better than Dark Souls 1, the truth Soul “fans” don’t want you to know.

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Gundato

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@onemanarmyy:

Yeah. Scholar is a mother fucker early on. Especially because it more or less forces you to fight Ruin Sentinel very early (if you thought Capra was a boss designed around shields, Ruin is designed around tower shields). More or less right after Ruin Sentinel the difficulty levels out until Drangleic Castle where it just skyrockets to almost DLC level encounters before settling again

I am definitely on team "Better than 1" but.. it is a busted ass mother fucker.

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BrunoTheThird

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Dark Souls 2 is like the more colourful, quirkier little brother of the first one. It's not quite as consistent, and some of the locations don't quite stitch together so seamlessly in terms of design, but it's got character and heart for days, and its DLC is actually kinda great. I think the movement can feel more sluggish, the animations overly deliberate, but it was a design choice I had to accept and adapt to.

Fantasy-wise, it's much wilder, which is my favourite thing about it. It takes more influences from sources like Narnia, with an even greater focus on humanoid animals/animal enemies, kings and queens, etc., than the first one.

Trudging up to Drangleic Castle, glittering like an obsidian obelisk in the rain, after so much anticipation, is one of my greatest gaming memories, and it doesn't disappoint when you reach it. Looking forward to the stream!

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Sahalarious

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I've beaten Dark souls 1 and 3 at least 10 times each and could barely stomach getting through Dark souls 2 once I'm going to pass on this one

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Shindig

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There is a lot of Dark Souls 2 and I've never really settled on a build like the others.

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OurSin_360

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@humanity said:

Dark Souls 2 is much better than Dark Souls 1, the truth Soul “fans” don’t want you to know.

It's the best in the series IMO

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jacksmedulla

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@oursin_360 said:

@humanity said:

Dark Souls 2 is much better than Dark Souls 1, the truth Soul “fans” don’t want you to know.

It's the best in the series IMO

What strange alternate dimension have I stumbled into?! I can't even comprehend this sentiment. I don't think DS2 is awful or anything, but it pales in comparison to every single other soulsborneiro game in my eyes.

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Shindig

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Bloodborne>1 > 2 > 3> Demons > Sekiro

I really, really, really need to be in a mood to play Sekiro again. It's good but I can't just hop back into it like the others. And I think I ruined 3 for myself by chasing the platinum.

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cubbielover

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Has she played through Resident Evil VII? I really want to see her play through that, but I am not familiar with Twitch, so I didn't know if I could watch it even she did play through it a while ago.

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bybeach

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Hot Take- Dark Souls 2 has the best Chagrined Knight...

I have Scholar of the First Sin. I may just settle on playing the original game. Life is hard enough.

And thanks, will check out Abby's look-at.

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TheRealTurk

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DS2 is definitely an odd duck. It seems to simultaneously want to carry on from DS1 while also being something completely different. The whole thing ends up being strangely incoherent.

And since we seem to be doing the ranking thing: DS1 > Bloodborne > DS3 > DS2 >>>>>>>>>>> Sekiro. I have never managed to play Demon Souls, and probably won't, since it seems like by the time a PS5 is available it will be the end of the damn console generation.

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dizzie_lizzie

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@cubbielover: she has played through it! The VODs should be on her Twitch and YouTube pages!

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norm9

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Half the people slagging DS2 didn't even play it and they call themselves dark souls fans.

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berfunkle

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#20  Edited By berfunkle

The main game of Dark Souls 2 is the easiest of the souls series in my opinion. The DLC, however, brought the ass kicking... I would also venture to say that it's the best DLC of the souls series.

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CrimsonJesus

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People who think Dark Souls 2 is bad can eat a butt, that game is great just overshadowed by the fact that the other Souls games are incredible.

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The main game of Dark Souls 2 is the easiest of the souls series in my opinion. The DLC, however, brought the ass kicking... I would also venture to say that it's the best DLC of the souls series.

agree. it has some of the best DLC of any game, ever.

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ALLTheDinos

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I only played the SotFS version, but I found the game to have incredibly inconsistent difficulty. I don’t think I died at a boss until the Royal Rat Authority, but some of those first areas gave me fits. It felt much longer than 1 and 3 though it probably wasn’t. All that being said, it was my least favorite of the trilogy, but it’s still a great game.

I hope Abby enjoys it and people don’t backseat drive her!

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OurSin_360

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@oursin_360 said:

@humanity said:

Dark Souls 2 is much better than Dark Souls 1, the truth Soul “fans” don’t want you to know.

It's the best in the series IMO

What strange alternate dimension have I stumbled into?! I can't even comprehend this sentiment. I don't think DS2 is awful or anything, but it pales in comparison to every single other soulsborneiro game in my eyes.

I loved it and felt the exact same way when I played it about people saying it was bad lol. I also played it at 60fps on the pc which may or may not have made it better for me than the console players. It's the souls game I put the most time into.

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Justin258

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@oursin_360 said:

@humanity said:

Dark Souls 2 is much better than Dark Souls 1, the truth Soul “fans” don’t want you to know.

It's the best in the series IMO

What strange alternate dimension have I stumbled into?! I can't even comprehend this sentiment. I don't think DS2 is awful or anything, but it pales in comparison to every single other soulsborneiro game in my eyes.

I can see some arguments for why Dark Souls 2 might not be "as good" as 1 or 3, but "pales in comparison to those games" also sounds like an incomprehensible sentiment to me. I loved Dark Souls 2, I don't see why it wouldn't belong in the same class as 1 and 3. It has a slightly different flavor and was clearly made by a different team, sure, but I think it's just as brilliant. Special mention goes to its mechanics and potential character builds - it seems like there are way more possibilities with DS2 than 1 or especially 3. Another special mention goes to variety in locations - Dark Souls 1 spends a lot of time being brown and grey and 3 doesn't fare much better there, while 2 is a brighter, more colorful game without ever losing the same sense of foreboding atmosphere that permeates these games.

...anyway, all that said, 1>3>2 are all in a close race. I'd have finished Bloodborne long ago if I could play it at a reasonable framerate, I quit Sekiro because I'm shit at parrying, always have been and always will be even after hours and hours of practicing and trying, and I'd love to play PS5 Demon's Souls but that's impossible for anyone not willing to camp various Twitter feeds and online store pages. I have PS3 Demon's Souls and thought it was all right but never actually finished it.

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Gundato

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#26  Edited By Gundato

For me, a lot of the reason I love DS2 so much is because it nailed most of what it tried.

Bloodborne tried to make the game around dodging. It did a mostly good job of that (even if it made bullshit hitboxes a lot more apparent) but it took away that sense of "power" and, more importantly, most of the boss variety. Basically every boss ended up becoming an Iaido master who goes neutral, charges an attack, and covers the entire screen so you need to i-frames through to land a few hits. Which is fun but that is just one enemy style with a very clear counter. In large part because in Bloodborne you only HAVE one counter (except parrying which even From knows to not make players rely on).

Sekiro I need to finish my blog post/crazy manifesto on it eventually but, at a high level: That was not a game about parrying. it was a game about turtling up with a Silver Knight Shield and feathering the block button. And you move like a fat rolling Havel.

Dark Souls 1 and 3 I kind of consider equals. Both NAIL the world design and have amazing variety but both also feel "basic". Kind of reminds me of Super Metroid in that it is an amazing game that I always love to play but... I would generally prefer something "more"

Which gets to Dark Souls 2. It goes even farther than Dark Souls 1 in a lot of ways. It isn't afraid to be an asshole in ways that remind me of Demon Souls but a lot more polished.

In Dark 1, almost every boss can be handled in every way and enemies like Artorias are god tier because it is a radically different boss fight with each "style" of play. But there was still that focus on making sure everyone can be beat as everything. Dark Souls 2 has no problem saying "Fuck you". I already mentioned Ruin Sentinels but that is an OBNOXIOUS fight. You have the rushdown aspect of bosses like Capra but it just keeps going. And there are two (three?) of them so you need the DPS bursting that Four Kings needed. And this is like the fifth (?) boss. Ruin is very much designed around grabbing a tower shield and I love that. I mix up the rat bosses but one is Sif (always fun) and the other is a god damned horde mode (unless you have the miracle that wrecks undead). Skeleton Priests is a similar shitshow where you either need to tank a LOT of damage types or be good at dodging.

And same with being willing to force you to accept that health is a resource. Some of the bosses you can negate the area effect damage but most players will never realize that and will have to deal with constant poison or increasing AOE fire damage over time. It forces you to balance defensive and offensive play in ways that very few (if any) other mainline souls bosses do.

And as much as I hate the bullshit of places like Drangleic Castle Courtyard, I love that they were willing to pull that shit. For an earlier reference, Heide's Tower of Flame is like the first/second area after the tutorial and has a lot of very strong enemies. Initially you pull them and take them one at a time. Then you just have four of them all charge you on a narrow platform. You can run backward to time them out and try to only fight one at a time but you more or less get stuck with at least one two on one. And it is sheer and utter bullshit but it is also kind of nice that the game would allow it.

Dark 2 is flawed as hell. But I love what it tried and feel that most of it is either a success or "if you squint a bit".

And just because I am SURE people are curious: my all time favorite Souls game is Nioh 1 (haven't gotten around to 2 yet). Very similar design philosophies to Dark Souls 2 but with actually useful special moves and a much more entertaining aesthetic and story. And barring a few bullshit bosses, I feel they are generally a lot better balanced.

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doctordonkey

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Dark Souls 2 is a pretty decent game, but it's absolutely the worst Souls game. Miyazaki was not the director and it shows. While he was busy working on the masterpiece that is Bloodborne, the Dark Souls 2 team was going through development hell trying to build a whole new engine from scratch, try a bunch of new and different things and the whole thing just didn't pan out. There's a great video that goes into detail about what exactly happened, and why the game turned out the way it did.

I enjoyed my time with it, and played through SotFS when that came out, but I have no qualms saying it is point blank the absolute worst stuff the souls team has ever put out. The level design is an absolute mess (especially coming right off the heels of DS1), as is the encounter design, the visuals had to be toned down so far to get it running acceptably that it had lost all sense of atmosphere and style, and the whole thing just felt really slow and sloppy with a ton of really bad hit detection issues, hitbox nonsense with the bosses, and just a really bad "feel" compared to DS1.

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Sahalarious

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@berfunkle: smelter demon ruined my life, only boss I've never been able to solo in all soulsborne games, otherwise not too hard but I did find the mobs deadlier in 2 than most others

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SethMode

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@therealturk: Don't worry, they'll probably remaster the remake for PS6!

I love DS2 so much, but it is SO weird. Bloodbourne is still my favorite, and I think DS1 is a better, more cohesive game, but DS2 is the non-Bloodbourne Souls game that I come back to the most, and that I had the most enjoyment with the first time through. I spent a VERY long time learning to parry those damn Heide Knights.

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AtheistPreacher

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#30  Edited By AtheistPreacher

Rich Stanton did a Dark Souls II diary entry every day for two weeks for IGN back around release. Weirdly, I can now only find days 1-4 and days 9-14; 5-8 seem to lost in the great jungle of the interwebs. But I distinctly remember him saying something like this (which must be in the missing days 5-8, because I can't find it now, so I'm paraphrasing): "Dark Souls II is still better than 99% of games out there, but it had the misfortune to be the follow-up act to the greatest video game ever produced." Which is roughly how I feel about it. I always thought that the people who raved about DS2 being a terrible game were massively overreacting.

I mean, hell, for as good as the original Dark Souls is, it had its own problems, such as all of Lost Izalith being absolutely terribly designed. Jim Sterling gives a good explanation in a video on Dark SoulsRemastered of why Lost Izalith sucks so bad. I might even venture to say that while DS2 never hits the highs of DS1, it has nothing quite as bad as Izalith.

In any case, I agree with what a lot of people seem to be saying, which is that Dark Souls II seems like the weakest of all the Souls-like FromSoftware titles, but it's by no means bad.

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RRBigman

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Dark Souls II has nonsensical world design and half the enemies are just armor guys, but it is at least trying to create a new world built from the bones of the first game‘s. Dark Souls III bringing back so much from I, and throwing away almost every single new element from II, was lauded at the time but now feels cowardly. I don’t feel either sequel is truly necessary, however. Bloodborne was the true next step.

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Hizang

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I'm a dark souls 2 apologist, it was my first one but I've gone back and replayed it last year and it's such a fun game. I loved the areas and bosses and and different groups were all fun, loved the bell guys.

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cubbielover

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morningstar

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Dark Souls 2 is a very good game, just not as good as Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Nioh.

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jacksmedulla

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@morningstar: Or Sekiro! Don't forget Sekiro, haha. It's become my second favorite behind DS1.

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ajamafalous

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I have the platinum in all but 3, and in my opinion, which very obviously holds far more value than anyone else's due to my incredible, near-inhuman expertise, is:

1 >>> Demon's >>>>>>>>>>> Scholar > 2 > 3 > Bloodborne

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Sahalarious

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I think a big part of the reason why we see such negative opinions about the overall good game that is DS2, is the replayable nature of these games. If I'm willing to continue syncing dozens of hours into one and three I just can't see myself going towards the lesser game. The world feels far more segmented as well which makes it less enjoyable to navigate through as you start learning everything because it's really just"levels" in a way that I find to be the antithesis of Dark souls 1. Dark souls 3 was segmented a bit but still had lots of sprawling environments that made that same connection