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    Achievements are extra challenges added into video games that sometimes carry a point value or unlock bonus material, and are sometimes solely for bragging rights.

    The Pointlessness Of Points. Plus, an apology?

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    Kazona

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    Edited By Kazona

    Before I start this blog, I would like to make a little apology to the people I follow, and follow me in return. I feel that I should put more of an effort into keeping track of your blog posts and commenting on them. It's just that I have a very forgetful nature, and I easily get caught up in other things. But I promise to try harder, and I apologize for my lack of feedback on all your blog posts thus far.
     

    The Pointlessness Of Points

     First off, a little disclaimer of sorts. This is purely from my own personal experience. I am not saying that achievement points, gamer scores, trophies, or whatnot are completely without merit. In fact, I think they've added a definite layer of extra depth to games in general. 
     
    For me, however, there achievement points are absolutely useless. This is partially because I'm not the type to do something I don't like in a game, just so I can get an achievement. If I get some kind of value out of it besides another 15 or 20 points, then I will do it. Fortunately I think that game developers have, for the most part, gotten better at making the points feel somewhat more meaningful, but there are definitely still things in games with achievements attached to them that I absolutely do not see the point of (no punt intended).
     
    But besides my arguable laziness, the key factor why points are pointless for me, is the very simple fact that I can not rent games. No, you are not reading that wrong. No need to adjust your monitor or clean your glasses. There is no place within a 50 mile radius (at least) that rents out any games. There used to be a store near here that rented out games, but it moved to another city. So every game that I have points for, I have owned at some point in my life. The only exception to these are the game I borrowed from my step-kids when I was visiting my girlfriend in America. And yes, I have also let them play games under my account, so I got a couple of extra points that way as well. But the point is, that renting games is not an option for me. And, well, we all know that it's pretty much impossible to keep up with other people's points without resorting to renting. Unless you are in the lucky position of being able to buy games on a weekly basis. Something which I'm not. 
     
    At this point in time, even if I were able to start renting games, there is no way I could catch up with high-rollers like Jeff. If I really wanted to have a chance, two things would need to happen. Firstly, all scores would have to be reset to zero, something which will never happen. And secondly, I would need to the possibility of renting games, which is more likely to happen sometime in the future.
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    Kazona

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    #1  Edited By Kazona

    Before I start this blog, I would like to make a little apology to the people I follow, and follow me in return. I feel that I should put more of an effort into keeping track of your blog posts and commenting on them. It's just that I have a very forgetful nature, and I easily get caught up in other things. But I promise to try harder, and I apologize for my lack of feedback on all your blog posts thus far.
     

    The Pointlessness Of Points

     First off, a little disclaimer of sorts. This is purely from my own personal experience. I am not saying that achievement points, gamer scores, trophies, or whatnot are completely without merit. In fact, I think they've added a definite layer of extra depth to games in general. 
     
    For me, however, there achievement points are absolutely useless. This is partially because I'm not the type to do something I don't like in a game, just so I can get an achievement. If I get some kind of value out of it besides another 15 or 20 points, then I will do it. Fortunately I think that game developers have, for the most part, gotten better at making the points feel somewhat more meaningful, but there are definitely still things in games with achievements attached to them that I absolutely do not see the point of (no punt intended).
     
    But besides my arguable laziness, the key factor why points are pointless for me, is the very simple fact that I can not rent games. No, you are not reading that wrong. No need to adjust your monitor or clean your glasses. There is no place within a 50 mile radius (at least) that rents out any games. There used to be a store near here that rented out games, but it moved to another city. So every game that I have points for, I have owned at some point in my life. The only exception to these are the game I borrowed from my step-kids when I was visiting my girlfriend in America. And yes, I have also let them play games under my account, so I got a couple of extra points that way as well. But the point is, that renting games is not an option for me. And, well, we all know that it's pretty much impossible to keep up with other people's points without resorting to renting. Unless you are in the lucky position of being able to buy games on a weekly basis. Something which I'm not. 
     
    At this point in time, even if I were able to start renting games, there is no way I could catch up with high-rollers like Jeff. If I really wanted to have a chance, two things would need to happen. Firstly, all scores would have to be reset to zero, something which will never happen. And secondly, I would need to the possibility of renting games, which is more likely to happen sometime in the future.
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    Whisperkill

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    #2  Edited By Whisperkill

    They add another layer of satisfaction to completion. Its a part of why we play games in the first place, accomplishment and satisfaction. There are plenty of other reasons why we game, but those are important ones, to me at least. 
     
    Also, I don't rent games either. I just borrow from friends and get games that are old and discounted. Just recently I picked up stranglehold for $8. Its kind of fun and was worth it.

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    Claude

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    #3  Edited By Claude

    I like achievements for one reason. They are nothing more than a small history of games played. These achievement prompts come up saying you achieved this or that and I then move on. I can count on one hand the achievements I went out of my way to get. I usually let my play experience be the achievements I get. I like having that history.

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    Mariek430

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    #4  Edited By Mariek430

    I really like the little pictures in my completed games list.

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    Binman88

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    #5  Edited By Binman88

    Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind.

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    sixghost

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    #6  Edited By sixghost

    Achievement points aren't a competition, and it's stupid to think of them in that way.

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    trophyhunter

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    #7  Edited By trophyhunter
    @Binman88 said:

    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "

     I'd hope all developers design their games with achievements in mind. That's how we get good well thought out achievements. 
    fable 2 is probably the best example of this.
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    Claude

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    #8  Edited By Claude
    @Binman88 said:
    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "
    There is a off switch for achievement notifications for the Xbox 360. I've tried it and it works. I turned it back on though, really didn't bother me. I just wanted to see if I could turn them off.
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    Skytylz

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    #9  Edited By Skytylz

    i don't see why anyone would dislike them, i can see indifference though because I am kind of indifferent towards them.

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    nail1080

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    #10  Edited By nail1080

    I don't see anything meaningful about this post,,,,,,

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    Binman88

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    #11  Edited By Binman88
    @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:

    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "

     I'd hope all developers design their games with achievements in mind. That's how we get good well thought out achievements.  fable 2 is probably the best example of this. "
    I'd rather their priority lies in making a good, well thought out game to be honest.
     
    @Claude said:
    " @Binman88 said:
    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "
    There is a off switch for achievement notifications for the Xbox 360. I've tried it and it works. I turned it back on though, really didn't bother me. I just wanted to see if I could turn them off. "

    Ah, I didn't realise that, I just have a PS3. Notifications don't really bother me either, but I can see them being a bit out of place to pop up in an deeply immersive game, detracting from the atmosphere a bit.
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    trophyhunter

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    #12  Edited By trophyhunter
    @Binman88 said:
    " @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:

    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "

     I'd hope all developers design their games with achievements in mind. That's how we get good well thought out achievements.  fable 2 is probably the best example of this. "
    I'd rather their priority lies in making a good, well thought out game to be honest.
     
    they are one in the same my friend
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    Adanux

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    #13  Edited By Adanux

    I agree with you that achievements are a waste of time (to me at least) when you're viewing them in the content of your gamerscore as a whole.  However, I think achievements are great when viewed in the context of individual games.  A perfect example of this would be my 200 points in BC:R. The 200 points makes up only a tiny fraction of my total gamerscore, but they still offer proof that I did every challenge the game offered as far as achievements are concerned.

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    JeevesPleez

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    #14  Edited By JeevesPleez
    @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:
    " @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:

    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "

     I'd hope all developers design their games with achievements in mind. That's how we get good well thought out achievements.  fable 2 is probably the best example of this. "
    I'd rather their priority lies in making a good, well thought out game to be honest.
     
    they are one in the same my friend "
    So your idea of a good game is one that nets you points? To each his own, I guess.
     
    For me, I usually only go for achievements if there's something more substantial than a number attached to it. For example, in the newest STALKER, there's an "achievement" system that doesn't give you points or anything, but gives you gameplay bonuses instead. For example, I did a bunch of stuff for a faction, got an "achievement" and now I get health items periodically in my footlocker.
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    trophyhunter

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    #15  Edited By trophyhunter
    @JeevesPleez said:
    " @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:
    " @trophyhunter said:
    " @Binman88 said:

    " Yeah they're pretty much pointless to me too. I certainly don't mind their inclusion in a game (though an off-switch for achievement/trophy notifications would be nice), but I'd hope developer's never design a game with achievements in mind. "

     I'd hope all developers design their games with achievements in mind. That's how we get good well thought out achievements.  fable 2 is probably the best example of this. "
    I'd rather their priority lies in making a good, well thought out game to be honest.
     
    they are one in the same my friend "
    So your idea of a good game is one that nets you points? To each his own, I guess.  For me, I usually only go for achievements if there's something more substantial than a number attached to it. For example, in the newest STALKER, there's an "achievement" system that doesn't give you points or anything, but gives you gameplay bonuses instead. For example, I did a bunch of stuff for a faction, got an "achievement" and now I get health items periodically in my footlocker. "
    well that's really really over simplifying it but I guess.
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    Kazona

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    #16  Edited By Kazona
    @trophyhunter said:
    " @Kazona said:
    " @trophyhunter: You either did not read my blog post, or you failed to see the part where I said that I have absolutely nothing against achievement points. It's right there, at the very first paragraph of that topic. "
    yeah I read your blog, it's all about you complaining about how you don't have time to play games and the only reason you say points are pointless is because you have none. "
    Oh man, you are so completely wrong that it's hard to keep from laughing. I have plenty of time to play games. Never in my entire blog post did I say that I had a lack of time. Seriously, if you can't comprehend the simple things that I said, then perhaps you need to work on your reading skills.
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    deactivated-57beb9d651361

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    While I generally disregard points/trophies entirely and find them a bit, well, fucking "meh" I still want to get them all if I notice a certain game edging towards "completeness".
     
    Edit: Nice post btw. 
    Edit 2: Of course someone called "trophyhunter" is going to debate this.

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    shiftymagician

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    #18  Edited By shiftymagician

    The only thing I do not like about the points system is simply due to the fact that a growing number of people play games just for arbritrary points with no actual value to them.  They are just assigned to you for doing something and that is it.
     
    Before points came in, people didn't waste their money on terrible games at all.  They just cautiously buy games and see which provided an amazing experience, which is the real reward in my honest opinion.  Now people buy or rent games due to achievements as well as gameplay, sometimes just solely for the need to raise their score.
     
    Oh and for those that think that achievements are a requirement for a good game.  For years I have played games, and played through NES all the way to today's consoles and PC (note I do not own all of them, but have tried them extensively at people's places when I encountered them).  I would play many of my favourite games again, without caring if I get no points out of it, because I am getting something far more valuable - great gameplay.
     
    So here is a theoretical thought experiment for you.  Take two games that were rated the same by all critics, and for control they were both of the same genre of games you like.  Both are able to entertain you, though you never know which one will be better until you try it or do more research.  One had achievement points, and one didn't.  Which one would you pick?  The result of this thought experiment is below.
     


     
    Oh just to be fair, the same goes for trophy's in PS3.  They didn't need it at all, and it is a shame that they caved in.  Also, if achievements actually did something to enhance or reward the player in other ways, then that is a more thoughtful use of the achievement system.  For example, Mass Effect 2 has an achievement where your experience rewards are increased, allowing you to get to level 30 far quicker.  I haven't got many other examples of this, and we need more achievements going in that direction, to make it actually complement the package, rather be a separate scoring system which is only there as a corporate requirement.  Too many games, however, are not doing this.

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