I am not totally sure of the physics of this, but if SAM is able to communicate to Ryder using some sort quantum entanglement communication, shouldn't the Nexus and all of the arcs be able to communicate instantaneously with all the folks back at the milky way?

Not totally sure of the physics but quantum entangled photons mirror each other instantly regardless of distance. As in you change the spin on one, the other changes at exactly the same time.

I am probably wrong.

I think it's mentioned briefly that the Initiative isn't getting any response from the Milky Way.

The thing with quantum entanglement is that it's strictly point to point communication. It's not merely ultra-long distance communication, but communication between two specific receivers.

It stands to reason they'd set up some QECs in the Milky Way paired with receivers on the Nexus/Arks, but considering it's been over 600 years, and given what we know happened right after the Initiative left, it's not crazy to think the Milky Way pairs were lost or destroyed.

As @theht mentioned, it is said in game that attempts to make contact with the Milky Way were not answered. Considering QEC is the only way intergalactic communication would be possible in the ME universe, that's obviously how they were attempting to make contact. Using traditional communication it would take 5 million years to get a response, so obviously the attempts were made with a QEC.

Probably not much point in holding the writers of a pop SciFi series to the standard of accurate physics, but just for funsies... a quantum particle is in an undefined state until measured. By measuring (observing) it, you collapse the wave function and force it into a defined state. The problem is, the state you end up with is essentially random, so there's no way to control the result. Yes, two particles may be entangled, but if you can't control the result on one end you can't control it on the other end, so you can't transmit information.

This is all based on a book-on-tape physics course I listened to awhile ago, so anyone with better training in the subject feel free to correct me.

@ll_exile_ll: It wouldn't necessarily take the full 5 million years to get a signal back from the Milky Way with non-QE comms - FTL-but-slower-than-QEC communication does exist in the ME-verse (something about radio signals transmitted through collimated mass effect fields, I think?) - but yeah, it'd certainly take an unreasonably long time, even assuming their FTL comms can reach that far.

And yeah, it's really not a substantial stretch to just say that the Initiative can't get a signal back from the Milky Way on their QECs. I mean, honestly, I'd actually find it harder to believe that the Milky Way QEC pairs did survive the Reaper War, the Crucible detonation, and then the subsequent 600 years of galactic reconstruction - assuming you didn't pick Refuse - than the inverse.

FTL communication in the ME universe is achieved with comm buoys that serve a similar function to Mass Relays, only they send data instead of matter. The Milky Way has an extensive comm buoy network that allows for galaxy wide communication. The Andromeda Initiative is using some makeshift methods of FTL communication using ships as transmitters until they can set up a comm buoy network in Heleus, but they're limited to where their ships travel.

Without an extensive comm buoy network stretched across the 2.5 million light years between galaxies, it would indeed take 5 million years to send a message and get a response.

@ll_exile_ll: Ah yeah, my bad:

"Each individual buoy is connected to a partner on another buoy in the network, forming a corridor of low-mass space. Tightbeam communications lasers are piped through these "tubes" of FTL space, allowing virtually instantaneous communication to anywhere on the network. The networks connect across regions by communications lasers through the mass relays."

I was under the impression FTL comm signals could be sent one-way without buoys. (With lag, but not nearly so much as you'd get with purely sublight comms.) But apparently not. Been a while since I last read the codex.

ME2 introduced quantum entanglement with the elusive man. And I think the codex mentioned a few other people had the tech, just not widely used.

Yep, that's definitely said and I think someone also says the Initiative is preparing to send unmanned ships back to the Milky Way with new QECs; which would take 600-ish years to get back, but'd still be something. And many of the Krogan and Asari would still be alive for that.

Between this and some other tidbits dropped in various places, I'm almost positive that the next game, assuming there still is a next game, is going to tie back to the Milky Way (though I haven't beaten the game yet). If that is the case though, I just hope its not Reapers; that storyline is played out.

@fezrock said:

Played out like AI synthesis, Ancient Aliens and one species using other species to make more of themselves? At this point, I wouldn't count on BioWare doing anything particularly original. If they make a sequel to Andromeda, it'll totally be the Reapers. They've already dropped a bunch of hints that the Milky Way got wiped out. It feels like JJ Abrams took over the series - it's the same thing, but bigger!

I also feel the talking with the Milky Way issue is emblematic of a lot of the problems I have with ME:A. I can't help but feel that if this were the original trilogy, there would be a whole series of codex entries to explain why communication with the Milky Way is a problem and preemptively deal with the question of "but what about quantum entanglement?"

Like when you first meet the Angara and they magically start speaking English in the span of a single jump cut. The original trilogy had an entire ream of information on first contact protocols and how part of that is sending linguists to compile the language for everyone's translators. In ME:A, they couldn't be arsed with that much detail. They just hand wave it away instead with a throw away line about the Angara monitoring your communications.

I don't think they have that tech since it only became used as far as we know, after they left. Thanks to the end of Mass Effect 3, they might not have that technology anymore either. Andromeda is 2.537 million light years away from us, so without that, it'll be roughly 2.536 million years until they get word of what happened there.

i have nothing to add to this coversation, i just wanted to say,

i'm mellotronrules, and this is my new favourite thread on giantbomb.com

(srsly- i get a contact high off of mass effect scifi semantics)

edit: someone kickstart a mass effect technical manual.

In Mass Effect 2, the Illusive Man had a Quantum Entanglement device to communicate with Shepard anywhere he went with no chance of eavesdropping, but it was implied it was very expensive prototype technology that practically no one else had. So I guess maybe the Andromeda Initiative didn't have one? Or yeah, maybe it got blue/red/green shockwave'd out of existence, who knows.

Quantum Entanglement doesn't break the speed of light originally. The two particles (or systems if you could somehow increase the effect) must start by directly interacting first. You can't just start and create a link to any particle anywhere. You would have to link them first and keep them linked. As soon as the connection is broken, it's broken for good until they interact again. (I haven't played Andromeda, I'm just a Physics student who previous did some basic research into Quantum Entanglement - rusty on it now though).

In reality quantum entanglement communication is impossible. My ME explanation would be that due to relativistic effects of long term FTL travel the entanglement between any QE communication devices would be broken.

Yup this is how it works in reality (as far as we understand it).

It does not enable FTL communication in any way. It does enable secrecy though -- you can use the entanglement to establish a shared secret that cannot be eavesdropped or intercepted, and use that to encrypt information sent via traditional means (in practice there are tons of issues with making this work but it is theoretically sound)

It is a bit odd. You would think that each Ark would have a QEC with each other Ark and the Nexus. The SAMs on each Ark should've been in constant communication on their 600 year journey.

Reject ending confirmed canon?

@angrighandi: Wow, that's a good point. It really does add an additional element of absurdity to this new game's setting. Hm... maybe the Andromeda mission creators figured Reapers wouldn't exist in another galaxy and just went all in?

Of course, if a bunch of apes and tentacle-headed aliens could cross 2.5 million light years of emptiness in a mere 600 years, bio-synthetic space Cthulhus that are hundreds of millions of years old with roughly equivalent (if not better) technology have probably already done it a few times just for kicks. Kind of a dumb premise either way. Who knows, though? Maybe the reapers left Andromeda alone as a "control group" experiment to see what happens if no eldritch horrors mess with the "natural order."

No...

In ME3, all the council homeworlds get hammered and the Citadel is basically destroyed in every ending. Those are the places where a QEC receiver are likely to be. In the midst of a war for the very survival of the entire galaxy, keeping track of a comunication console that won't be needed for 600 years probably wasn't a top priority. It's entirely plausible that the Milky Way end of the Andromeda Initiative QEC was lost or destroyed in any of the endings.

Besides, the entire reason the series was moved to Andromeda was to avoid having to either account for all the possible endings in the next game or choose a canon ending. They've been pretty adamant that they will never choose a canon ending. Whether that changes in the future remains to be seen, but as of now all the endings are equally canon.

Still in the early hours of the game, but this has been my biggest issue with the premise. I'm still enjoying my time, but man the writing on everything about the expedition to Andromeda bums me out. Really wish they had put more thought into it or gone with a prequel.

Reapers are not everywhere in the universe. They are from the Milky Way and only prey on the Milky Way (as far as we know in the from the first trilogy), they simply doze just outside of it while they wait for the next cycle. So yes the Andromeda run as a backup measure makes absolute sense in that scenario (it's an extra shot, when it comes to ultimate survival every shot counts). Also reapers are pretty dumb as the og trilogy has shown us, all their actions and reasoning are idiotic in the first place, so if you want to take umbrage with the writing it was dumb even in 2 and 3.

Reapers are also technologically and developmentally stagnant for all intents and purposes, they have been in a dead end for all those thousands of years The only reason reapers are even a legitimate threat in the first place is that they don't let biological species develop any further technologically then just below the level where they themselves have stagnated at (and ultimately they even fail at that)

Mass effect is littered with plotholes and it includes all the science.

It gets a little silly when its so obvious but you wont find any explanation for it.

It doesnt make any sense that the arks cant communicate. It doesnt make any sense that Ryder looses communication to sam when landing on a planet with bad weather. It doesnt make any sense that the turians know their pathfinder hasnt died becase Sam hasnt been transfered yet but they still cant communicate with their pathfinder through sam. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Just accept QEC at facevalue like you would accept magic in a fantasy.

The motivation behind the Initiative is explained via the "Ryder Family Secrets' quest.

@angrighandi: It could've been handled better, but there is a deeper explanation in the game. *Spoilers for Alec's 3rd encrypted log and follow-up*

Maybe all this is resolved in ME:A, I haven't beaten it yet. But since this is all in the non-critical path, I suspect its set-up for future games.

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