I recently bought a desktop setup with a 4K monitor and PS4 that sits on the same desk as my gaming PC. But do to very limited space, I'm looking for a specific type of speaker system to use with my very modest PS4 setup.
I've seen some desktop stereo speakers that have the tweeter, woofer, and subwoofer all built into 1 unit. Each for the left and right channels. I've been trying to find a proper search term for them on Amazon such as "full range desktop speaker system," but most of the results are not what I'm looking for. They are either just speaker cones without the housing, or speakers with a separate subwoofer.
Soundbar. Some are designed with desktops in mind, but most are primarily for living room TV setups.
My wonderful sounding 2.1 system I use for my TV/PC/PS4 died, so I replaced it with a soundbar. My dad had a nice Yamaha soundbar, but I wasn't the biggest fan.
I bought a Klipsch Stadium, and couldn't be happier.
@xanadu: @steppashq: @damodar: They are definitely very similar in size and form to studio monitor speakers. But after trying to find them, I realize they might not be a standard form factor in audio hardware.
The speakers I've seen are similar in size to studio monitors or or bookshelf speakers. But they have these stubby pegs in each of their 4 corners at the bottom. This makes each speaker stand up about 1 inch (~2cm) off the desk. The subwoofer isn't on the same surface as the tweeter and woofer, but on the bottom of the speaker cabinet firing downwards.
I think maybe only a very few or just one manufacturer makes this model of speakers, given that they're so hard to find.
This sounds less like asking for a speaker type and more like asking for a specific product name of a manufacturer. If this is the case, it's probably easier to just find the website of some major manufacturers (JBL, Logitech, and so on) and just browse their catalogue.
It could be a downward firing bass speaker on these mystery speakers, but I'd think it more likely that it's a "passive radiator", Considering the form factor, size and poor design in placing such a speaker there. A passive radiator looks like a speaker , but does not have a basket or magnet. It serves to fool the speakers into thinking the cabinet is bigger (within certain sound pressure limits). I just thought I'd further confuse the issue...
Can you be more descriptive about these speakers? Are the drive units visible? Is there a grille? Were the speakers all on the front, or on the sides, on top, etc. Colours? Shapes? Where did you see them, and more importantly, how did they sound? I'm desperate to aid you in the desperate, increasingly futile battle to retain stereo soundstages.
Get either the Kanto Yumi YU4 and YU6 active monitors and a Kanto subwoofer, or get a Dac with an optical out like the JDlabs OL Dac and get a Schiit preamp and some JBL LSR305 monitors.
These are about your cheapest and best option without busting the bank and will blow the shit out of any sound bar or PC speakers.
I lean heavily towards the Kanto Yumi because they already have a Dac/amp inside and can be hooked up directly to the ps4 without the need for a separate Dac and preamp, and you can attach a subwoofer. I'd go for the 6 inch version, but the 4 is fine of you have limited space. I think the sub comes in 8 and 10 inches as well. Bigger = more bass and volume, so I'd always go for the biggest you can get within your price range and size limitations.
This sounds less like asking for a speaker type and more like asking for a specific product name of a manufacturer. If this is the case, it's probably easier to just find the website of some major manufacturers (JBL, Logitech, and so on) and just browse their catalogue.
I've done this for the major manufacturers of desktop speakers: Logitech, Creative, Bose, Harman Kardon, and Corsair. I've also browsed through stereo desktop speakers on Amazon and Newegg. I wasn't able to find anything similar to what I'm looking for.
It could be a downward firing bass speaker on these mystery speakers, but I'd think it more likely that it's a "passive radiator", Considering the form factor and size. A passive radiator looks like a speaker , but does not have a basket or magnet. It serves to fool the speakers into thinking the cabinet is bigger (within certain sound pressure limits). I just thought I'd further confuse the issue...
Can you be more descriptive about these speakers? Are the drive units visible? Is there a grille? Were the speakers all on the front, or on the sides, on top, etc. Colours? Shapes? I'm desperate to aid you in the desperate, increasingly futile battle to retain stereo soundstages.
After looking up passive radiators, you might be right. I can't confirm if the downward firing cones were subwoofers or passive radiators. But passive radiators have nothing driving their sound, correct? I wonder if pointing passive radiators at the ground has a noticeable impact on the soundstage?
There definitely was a speaker grille, the drivers weren't exposed. But I think in the product pictures, the grille was removed to show the drivers.
Colors were typical black/gray combinations. I can't vividly remember any other colors or logos on it.
The woofer and tweeter were front-facing on the same plane, with the tweeter on top of the woofer. There was another cone-like structure facing downwards that I assumed was the subwoofer. This did not have a grille or any coverings.
They were bigger than usual desktop speakers. More bulky and boxy akin to studio monitors.
Edit:
They look very similar to this picture on the WIkipedia page for studio monitor speakers. But it seems like the structure holding the speaker up is not part of the original speaker, and that speaker has no audio opening underneath it.
@stonyman65: Thanks for the suggestions. But do you know of anything similar to studio monitors that also have a subwoofer built into the speaker cabinet?
I don't mind if they're bulkier and slightly bigger than normal desktop speakers or monitors. I already have a massive subwoofer unit underneath my desk, and with surge protectors and cables running down there, I don't have space for another subwoofer.
@tuxedocruise: I've been looking around and no luck yet. It does seem more reasonable to put a passive radiator underneath a cabinet than a bass speaker, which would only get sound reflected straight back at it from what it's standing on.
If you want deep bass, then you don't necessarily need a subwoofer. Those things were a compromise so you can have tiny speakers and the illusion of bass, but the wooly grunt from a sub isn't stereo as recorded. Some speakers have passive radiators to aid bass frequencies, some are sealed, most have reflex ports and a few have transmission lines (like the excellent PMC monitor speakers), but it is the size and tuning of the cabinet that makes the difference.
The maximum width of each speaker will be important in determining the depth of bass you can have. Many speakers are just a bit wider than their bass units and so quite deep to make the cabinet volume up. Generally speaking, the larger the bass speaker, the lower frequencies you'll hear. My own compromise is 8" bass units in Adam P22-A speakers with dual reflex ports for my computer set-up.
2nd hand speakers are a fantastic cheap bet, if you know what to look for. Speaker technology has not moved on very far from the 60's. Tannoy HPD speakers are excellent if you'd like a rich deep bass and have space for 12" or 15" units. They also have pinpoint imaging, because they are dual concentric with their tweeters. You can find them in many different models and they produce a rich and sumptuous bass. Others to consider are KEF, Rodgers, Celestion, etc.
Powered studio monitors are generally ok for home audio, but they do tend to be purposefully bright. 2nd hand Adams, PMC, Genelecs, Yamahas and Dynaudios are used professionally and worth investigating too.
UPDATE!! - COULD IT BE THE ELAC BS-192? Have you heard ribbon tweeters? I have some in my Adams and they are brilliant, but I don't think these Elacs will go lower than 50Hz.
@hamst3r: There are only 2 cones in each speaker in one of your pics and only 1 cone in each speaker in the other - I think you meant "drive units", or transducers? The whole thing is further complicated when a "2 way" speaker can have more than 2 drive units!
@tuxedocruise: I guess that would be a 3 way speaker? I've never seen or even head of what you are looking for. I'm not even sure how that would work without crossover, unless it allowed you to do that on each speaker? Either that or a huge-ass bass port to try and fake a subwoofer? I'm kinda lost here. Totally outside my realm of (addmitedly limited) knowledge. Maybe shoot a question over to the guys at r/audiophile or one of the pro audio boards like gearslutz?
@diz: Pretty sure that's the type of speaker I'm looking for. Thanks!
But I don't believe those have any ports underneath the cabinets?
Given that elevated cabinet design is seen in speakers and stands for speakers - is this a standard, but obscure speaker design? Because from the few that I remember, the reason for the elevation is to allow a sound port underneath to dispense more sound. But if that sound was a passive radiator or an active subwoofer, I can't be sure.
Is there a way to look up this speaker design? Because I think it would get me closer to finding the one that might have had actual subwoofers underneath them.
@tuxedocruise: Yes the Elac bs192 does have a passive radiator underneath and an integral base-plate and stand-offs. That's why I was so excited (for you)!- You can search for them and find pdf specs and such.
As I said earlier, passive radiators are there for pressure equalisation inside the cabinet, so don't really care where they go. Reflex ports do have more direct effects on sound - some desirable and others not so much. Which is why some manufacturers place them on the front, while others hide them near the back.
Tannoy also made a XT6 speaker with a down firing reflex port and an integral plinth. That one though is dual concentric,so it looks like it only has the one speaker (when the tweeter is actually crammed in the middle of the bass speaker).
I do wonder, though, why you are so fascinated with this particular feature. After all, it would be sonically and visually invisible to you, aside from a dust trap underneath each speaker. I've heard a great pair of speakers with passive rads - the original Kef 104's: They sound fantastic and are a cheap buy 2nd hand now, but the radiator on them is quite massive and the cabinet is large already. I've owned a pair of Kef 104.2 speakers, but they replaced the passive radiator with a complicated system of having internal 2 bass speakers firing vertically, connected together with a push-rod. The bass sounds came out of a massive front-firing port. The 104 and the 104.2 are so radically different, but the original 104's do sound better!
Passive radiators, just like everything else, are a compromise. If you want deep stereo bass, there is a cost. For me, it was researching and designing my own speakers based on the IMF transmission line cabinets. They go flat down to 35Hz (-3db @ 28Hz).The problem with them is they are very big and heavy and took me years of learning and expense to finalise.
Don't be taken in by concepts though. For example, I would say that a passive radiator won't make too much difference in such a small cabinet, given what I know about physics. Some of the best domestic speaker systems ever made don't even have cabinets at all!
@diz: I kind of suspected that any downward firing passive audio port would not yield a perceivable difference. But I have no experience in audio engineering, so my first hand takes on it are very limited.
That's why I've been trying to use the basis of that concept to see if there are any speakers that use it, but apply an active driver to push the bass.
I'm looking for this specific type of set-up is because I enjoy a well-defined punchy bass. Bass that still has a notable pitch and compliments the rest of the frequencies. Not just a general muddy bass that only sounds rumbly to sound rumbly. I'm also looking for it in this type of configuration because I prefer a stereo setup, but not with a dedicated subwoofer unit.
I don't mind if the size isn't in line with other studio monitors. But I haven't been wholly satisfied by the type of low frequency response from any studio monitor - as someone mentioned in this thread, they all tend to land on the bright side.
Basically I'm trying to find a studio monitor setup with the bass response of a modest home theater setup - just in stereo. Is that a pipedream?
@tuxedocruise: Pipe-dream? Not at all. I'm living it! I'm cursed with a life-long audio freakery, fascination with electronic design, and I play the bass! It's a perfect storm.
You know, in many recording studios they have a "trick", where they sellotape a sheet of toilet paper over the top of the tweeter to tame the harshness down a bit. You can see many studios with Yamaha NS-10 speakers covered in bog roll - still used almost universally as a "crappy reference" speaker in posh studios (although discontinued in 2001) - for what music might sound like on a more limited stereo, rather than through proper, large studio monitors. For extended NS-10 listening, this tissue trick saves ground teeth.
I think it all comes down to size and potentially in speaker design philosophy. Bass is all about moving (and stopping) a lot of air quickly. For example, you know a transmission line speaker is specifically designed for accurate, deep bass. They wouldn't bother otherwise. Large, light paper cones can react quickly, so make for good bass drivers. i.e: A 10" speaker will move roughly four times the amount of air as a 5" speaker, for the same cone travel. So small speakers tend to have large rubber surrounds and require more energy to move the cone further. They can also suffer from problems in "chuffing" or "quacking" from moving pistonically rather than vibrating. These criticisms can also applied to some bass reflex ports too, where large changes in air pressure around small diameters exist.
Also, it's not just the speakers - many of these studio monitors have their own internal amps in them, which are typically "class D". I haven't heard a class D amp that is as musical as the more usual class A/B variety. The class D is far more power efficient (big deal!) and uses small and cheaper components, especially in the power supply. It's a bit of a problem I have with my Adam P22's because they're active.
Maybe (in theory at least) a three way system (bass, midrange and treble speakers) can have a more extended frequency range than a 2-way system. But the penalty would be in matching the drive units together, so that they cross-over at the correct frequencies. Crossovers inside of passive speakers are lossy and introduce phase angle shifts and other anomalies and complexities to the signal, but allow the whole system to be plugged into the one amp. Active systems mitigate many problems with passive crossovers because they split up the signal before it's amplified, but you then need one amp for each drive unit. Thankfully, you can convert any passive system to active (the holy grail of esoteric hi-fi), given enough amps and a decent active crossover.
Maybe you should check out some of the older style Tannoy professional monitors (Little Reds if you can afford them). Or "Linn Isobarik" speakers are rather a bargain (if you can get them where you are), conceptually fascinating, and sound totally sublime - (and you don't need Naim amps). Then there's TDL (who took over from IMF), Acoustic Research and plenty more, as I suggested earlier. You can then choose your own amplification with these passive speakers and I can bore you even further...
The term "studio monitors" has become rather diluted now, as the concept of a studio has moved into the bedroom. Most "hobby-grade" "studio monitor" products returned from a search would be rather hopeless at mixing and monitoring. I know it sounds snobbish, but I've been sailing in the same boat as you have.
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