The PS5 doesn't get a fair amount of criticism?

I see the Series X get a lot of hate or apathy online, I agree with the apathy part, but what has Sony done to sale the PS5 at launch? This isn't a thread to defend MS or Xbox, I think Sony and MS aren't doing a good job at selling next-gen. Halo getting delayed was a big hit for the Xbox, but what is the PS5's AAA launch title?

Maybe it's just what I happen to see online, but I don't agree with the "Sony is killing it, Series X is already dead" sentiment. Based off the presentations so far, I'd rate the Series X a D and PS5 a C-. The UE5 demo is the only thing very impressive I've seen so far for next-gen.

While I agree at launch PS5 doesn't have a ton going on and I certainly doubt I'll be buying one immediately, it feels like Sony has shown at least a few more games with actual gameplay coming only to the new console. The Ratchet and Clank demo, while not for launch, at least seemed well into development and did a great job showcasing what the SSD will bring to the table. They also have the easier sell because they're just doing the same thing every new console launch does: bringing games that only work on the new console.

Microsoft's "Buy it or don't, we don't care as long as you play our games somewhere" approach is consumer friendly, but at the cost of making the XBox Series X seem less necessary. Their other major franchises have for the most part gotten more vague trailers that are either just pre-rendered announcements (Fable) or "this is slightly prettier than the last console" graphical showpieces (Forza). They needed a showpiece title at launch to really tip the scales, and they lost that with Halo's delay.

Really though, I don't expect either console to be very good during their first year, especially given COVID taking a wrecking ball to pretty well every game in development. I also certainly don't think Series X will be dead, I just think it's the tougher sell right now. That could always change when the prices are announced though.

@squadaloo: Yeah that aspect of Ratchet seems cool. If games don't look much better early into next-gen I at least want them to have a feature like Ratchet's portals, which wouldn't be possible this gen. That's problem I had with most of these next-gen trailers. They don't look much better and they're not doing anything new. I could've gone another year with PS4 Pro and One X if it meant next-gen would really start next holiday.

Back before the PS4 and Xbox One launched, my thought was it doesn't have to be revolutionary, just better. So many of those games ran at 720p 30. They were hitting limitations, whether it was the 360 not having Blu-Rays or consoles having small hard drives. Even when there were good looking games like The Last of Us or whatever that came out 7 years after those consoles launched, those systems were just old. At a certain point, there needs to be a refresh where this is the new base. Whether that is for how good games can look moving forward or for those type of games running better than they did previously. For example, back when it came out, the PS4 version of Metal Gear Solid V looked pretty good. Not the best game ever, but good. Meanwhile the PS3 version looked pretty bad; bad enough I could not imagine going back to playing a game that looked and ran like that.

Seven years later, with the PS5 and Xbox Series X coming, I have the same view. The PS4 and Xbox One are old. We're getting to the point where games do not run great on these systems. The Pro and X versions helped, but those are showing their limits. If the consoles don't come out or if people wait, the PS4 and Xbox One versions will continue to be fine. Some ports will probably be borderline or bad. You don't "have" to upgrade yet, but it's time to push things forward. It's been seven years again, and the tech and how these systems work is dragging these games down more and more.

With the PS5, there are (some) exclusive games and the messaging is pretty consistently "This is the future". With the Series X. the messaging to me feels like, "Hey, we got this box called the Xbox Series X, but we may also have a box called the Xbox Series S, but you don't need either of them, because you can play these games on PC with Game Pass, and you don't even need a PC, because you can play these games on Game Pass with the Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One S All Digital, or the Xbox One X, and all of these games will run across all of these different platforms, except for the one or two games which if you read the fine print are not coming to the Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One S All Digital, and Xbox One X."

Microsoft's pitch is just to get into their ecosystem again, but they don't care how. That said to me...Eh. I haven't played an Xbox exclusive in a decade and don't feel like I missed a thing. The one time I tried to use their gaming app on PC, it was such a trash fire, I don't really want to try using it again. Also, I have a PC, a PS4, and a Switch. I don't need another ecosystem.

People also keep saying the next generation is about Game Pass, which is a service I have some real misgivings about. I'm really worried that things like Game Pass, Epic's free game giveaway, and similar services will teach people not to buy games, and what affect that may have on smaller developers.

I'm not saying the PS5's messaging has been perfect or the launch will be amazing, but I think it's just time for new consoles. Sony still has plenty to say about games, the system, and all of that, but when they talk about what they're doing, I'm still excited for that new shit. Microsoft's messaging on the other hand either makes me think, "So, why should I buy this" or "Nah, I'm good".

Yeah, I just don't care about either at this point. The money I might have spent on console hardware in November is going straight to an RTX 3000. If and when I start seeing PS5 exclusives I care about actually releasing next year, I'll consider buying next gen.

I'd like to get a new console in the future, but I don't see a reason not to sit back for a bit and see how things turn out. Sony had some good looking stuff, but I have so many games to play already and don't see the need to rush out to buy a PS5 this holiday. None of the stuff they've been talking about is all that compelling to me, and the box itself is kinda weird looking. Happy to wait a year or two on it.

Microsoft isn't doing the hard sell on their new box in a big way either, and that's fine by me. Even without the Halo delay, that was going to be playable on Xbox One X or PC if I understand right. No need for the Series X just yet, though it does seem like a cool machine that I will want.

We are at the tail end of a generation where the Xbox barely even put up a fight, the games, the hardware and the OS/Software that bound it all together disappointed and continued to disappoint for SEVEN YEARS. I really don't blame anyone for having misgivings about how Xbox operated this gen, and I don't blame people for being wary of what they want to do in terms of Xbox One continuing to be in the mix for Xbox's first party software. Historically that's not how new consoles work and "gamers" the types who think arguing about their platform of choice on Twitter is a good use of time, generally don't accept new things. That's not even getting into seven years of kids and people growing into adolescence and adult hood where the PS4 was by far the better choice and seven years of people building Libraries on the PS4 that will carry forward onto the PS5.

I haven't noticed a disproportionate amount of criticism aimed at the Series X, it seems to be mostly a general apathy for the "next generation" in general. There's nothing that stands out as a system-seller for either console, especially if you already have a decently powerful PC. I'm certainly not going to pre-order anything right now.

I don't see those general 'Sony is killing it, Series X is already dead' sentiments at all. At least not on this forum?

What i do see is the sentiment that Microsoft doesn't necessarily need you to buy their console if you have a beefy PC to buy them on already. And that this bums certain people out because the main thing they want from a console is to play games they can't play on their PC already. Sure, Xbox won't have any traditional first-party 'console exclusives' in this sense, but this new approach does give them a wide user base to sell their stuff to, while Sony really has to focus on their particular piece of the console-pie audience. It's smart business.

If the PC people ever decide to buy a console in 5 or 15 years, they get to choose for a blank slate playstation where they have no game library at all to start with, or choose for an Xbox console that has a bunch of the games available that they once bought on PC. That does nudge the advantage to the Xbox. Unless the entire reason to buy a console was to check out the exclusive games they couldn't play on PC. Or they never buy a console and stick throwing some cash towards microsoft's gamepass or games instead. That's still a revenue-stream that a dedicated console-business like Sony is not getting.

@clagnaughtPeople also keep saying the next generation is about Game Pass, which is a service I have some real misgivings about. I'm really worried that things like Game Pass, Epic's free game giveaway, and similar services will teach people not to buy games, and what affect that may have on smaller developers..

Yeah i'm with you on that. If people are getting enough game diversity through game pass, at some point you don't even need browse for new games to buy. Microsoft will plop some new ones on the game portal instead! And i imagine that if you're a big indie publisher like Devolver Digital, you have an inbuild audience. People take notice of what they do. Microsoft knows that Devolver offers quality indie and that people want to play their games. A great fit for a game pass. But if you don't have a strong publisher like that behind your game and the amount of people browsing stores for new games to buy has decreased, i imagine it's hard to get seen with your game.

I try not to pay too much attention to the internet noise as it’s just the same console wars nonsense since time immemorial. But the one thing that I find weird this time around is people in the gaming industry being upset that “there are no games at launch”, especially in the case of the Series X. Just in the past week I’ve heard Austin on Waypoint Radio and Vinny on the Beastcast wonder what the point of the Series X is this year without Halo, and that seems like a weird thing to get hung up on. Practically everybody who is interested in Halo already has a device that will play it, and so the Series X was equally as “unnecessary” before the delay as it is now.

I dunno, I’ve always had it in my head that the new consoles would be nonessential purchases in the first year, because the last gen of consoles were nonessential in their first year. But I still got a PS4 at launch because it played the cross gen games better than a PS3. And you know what, I want to play Cyberpunk with awesome graphics and no load times, so I’m going next gen at launch yet again. Anyone who doesn’t think this is a good value proposition can and should wait. But let’s not act like the current situation is unprecedented.

Neither next gen console has sold me on it being needed. I have an ok PC, and Microsoft's play our game where ever approach, means I most likely don't even need to think about the Series X.

Nothing on the PS5 has blown me away so far either. Currently its all a bit Meh for me.

Until someone shows me something I can ONLY get on that piece of hardware (Which based on the above, wont be Microsoft) that's revolutionary, I will sit the next gens out for now.

As to why people are being negative about the series X, I imagine it has a lot to do with Halo being pushed. Microsoft have nothing to hang their release on. At least the PS5 has some stuff..... although no where near enough for me.

I'll buy both consoles eventually, but so far Microsoft hasn't shown me a single game I have any interest in. Spider-man and Astrobot were some of the best games on this current generation of consoles, and while Miles Morales and Astro's Playroom don't appear to be "full-fledge, full length, video game blockbusters" I'm still interested in playing them.

I have always been a Gears guy as opposed to a Halo guy when it comes to Microsoft's stuff, so even before the delay, I had little to no interest in Halo anyways. Adding open world cruft to the series hasn't peaked my interest in it either. Without that, their entire selling point has become backwards compatibility and Game Pass. But I already have an Xbox One and Game Pass, so there's nothing for me there right now. Eventually Gears 6 will come out, and that'll probably be when I say it's time to pick up a Series X, but right now, they've got nothing for me.

If anything, I feel like both consoles aren't getting much love. And frankly, we haven't seen enough to warrant the big money required to jump in. Maybe it's because PC games routinely run at 4k 60 fps, so if that's your selling point there isn't really anything futuristic about it.

Xbox is trying something new, with this whole focus on Game Pass and cross-gen capability. Which is a nice way for me to continue playing games on my One X, but is in no way a good sell on needing a Series X. It feels like status quo, but not exciting next gen horizons. While the PS5 feels more like a standard generational shift, so that brings in feelings of "launch games might not be great" that we're used to.

I'll get both, I always do. It's just a matter of when. Sounds like PS5 might be first since it'll have some true next-gen exclusives while I can play whatever's on Game Pass on my One X.

I think Sony, while making many of the same mistakes Microsoft has, has made a better case selling their potential consumers the "need" for a next generation console. It doesn't help that they are a LOT better than Microsoft in distinguishing their products. They have also been better at showing a wider arrange of games, so most people could find something that interests them on their lineup.

Microsoft has been far more interested in game pass and its community than hardware so far, to the point it looks like they are into the console market more as an afterthought. It sounds cool for people that are already part of that service (by the way, MS, what is up with not supporting Gamepass on my region, uh?), but it doesn't seems like a hardware investment is required. Again, great for consumers, but harder to justify what is the point of the next gen?

To me it seems we've mostly reached a point of diminishing returns when it comes to graphical fidelity. Sure, there's always room to grow up - we can look at pre-rendered stuff like Pixar to see possibilities for making things prettier. But like... PS4 games look *fine*. They look better than fine, they're very nice! They look great! I wish devs would spend more time coming up with really innovative ideas, creative worlds to explore, memorable characters and stories rather than pushing more and more pretty pixels. I'm more interested in the Nintendo / indie game scene than I am anything else at this point.

@hermes: I guess the point of next-gen in Microsoft’s case is to give more horsepower to the people that want it. Like you said, it’s great for consumers, so I’m not sure it needs to be more complicated than that.

Honestly for me, its that Sony has proven themselves this gen with a platform that delivers exactly the games I want and I am biased towards it because I'm already living in their ecosystem. Also, more people have PS4s than have Xboxs so it would be expected to see not that many people would want to criticize the PS5 vs wanting to dogpile on the "loser" of this generation.

Personally, I want the PS5 at launch, and I will end up getting it either way. I do agree that the launch lineup is starting to look weak. For me the big seller is Cyberpunk because I want it to be a smooth experience from beginning to end. I know my PS4 Pro is gonna chug, and I want to be ready both for the future, and this game that I really want to play.

@deathstriker: Without reading your post (I will). There's been a certain animosity towards Microsoft since the got into the game. I look at the fact that i can mostly pick up a computer from 1995 and have it do computer things in 2020. They have a legacy of supporting software well past its expiration date. They will innovate because it will serve some division of their company in way or another. People do the anti-corporation thing with Microsoft and you can see Epic trying to leverage that against Apple with #freefortnite. Sony hasnt made anything i truly care about since the Playstation 1. PS2 just had all the games xbox and gamecube had. Ps3 was second fiddle to 360. PS4 is just 3rd person action games. People hated on Kinect. They should ask Alexa or Siri the definition for 'shortsighted,' or 'hivemind'?

I don’t get what Vinny, Austin or anyone else point is about the launch line ups. There is honestly little reason to purchase either of them during launch as neither has much coming out. This isn’t a new situation either. Most console launches of late have been sparse on content and even worse for quality content. This time doesn’t look any different. However, both have good reasons to get each eventually if you care about particular aspects.

PS5:

- Will have exclusives you can’t play anywhere else.

- If you didn’t have a PS4 you can also play those exclusives on PS5 with improved frame rates.

XBOX

- Will technically have the best versions of third party

- Increased first party output through their recent studio acquisitions

- Seamlessly move from couch to PC (important for someone like me)

- More cross play options

- Game Pass

Hardly an exhaustive list but the way I see it, there are potentially more reasons to get an Xbox but more important reasons to get a PS5. Again, where you fall will depend on your preferences.

+-4489 Ps2 games

+-1000 Xbox games

+-658 Gamecube games

There's plenty of room in my heart for lots of apathy for both.

I think most certainly does not nudge the advantage to Microsoft for the hypothetical PC gamer buying a console . Even if I owned a bunch Microsoft first party games on PC that would theoretically be instantly available to me upon purchasing the Series X, that's not going to motivate me in the slightest to buy an Xbox.

Why spend hundreds of dollars to play games you already own and can play on a superior platform? The main reason to buy a specific console is play games that can't be played anywhere else. I don't see much reason for a PC gamer to choose an Xbox over a Playstation. If you're going spend $500 on a console, it makes way more sense to buy the one that has a games you can't already play.

@eldranth: Launch lineups not being good isn't new, but this one does feel extra odd. We normally would know the prices by now and release dates. We also would've seen the systems earlier, probably last year's E3. The price still being a secret makes me wonder if one or both systems will be a silly price like $600. The launch titles should've been clearly outlined by now. Maybe some of this is on COVID, which is understandable, but this is a weird and underwhelming console generation launch so far.

• Because that superior platform 5 or 15 years later also requires hundreds of dollars to be upgraded for the incoming generation of games.
• You want to retain your aging PC that still does everything well (except gaming) and don't want / have room for an additional PC to solve the gaming situation. Why not buy a dedicated game solution if you have all the other benefits of a PC already at home?
• Certain games now have multi-year support so it makes sense you want to keep playing them on the new system. Especially if you couldn't play them on the top settings before. (Rainbow Six Siege, Division 2)
• To take advantage of that 4K HDR OLED TV. (or Microled if that's the new affordable display tech :P)
• To take advantage of the new sofa
• You no longer prefer PC-gaming and don't care for the exclusive genre's that it offers anymore.
• Your partner wants to sit next to you and watch or play along
• A job-change has suddenly put you behind a desk for 8 hours a day and you don't want to repeat that at home anymore.
• A newborn child requires you to get away from your office room and be in the living room as you keep an eye out while he sleeps.
• A recession / job-loss has made it impossible to build a new PC that competes with the price/ performance of the new consoles.
• New friends or co-workers want to play certain games together that don't offer crossplay
• The new place you moved to doesn't have room for a desk

The main reason to buy a specific console is play games that can't be played anywhere else. I don't see much reason for a PC gamer to choose an Xbox over a Playstation

I'm kinda like that as well. I would not want to miss out on Sony's games. That said, we have seen the kind of first-party games that Sony likes to produce. It's entirely possible that a person would not care for that kind of story-based dramatized third person game.

If that's the case, the only meaningful difference is that on one platform you can make use of your purchased games and your gamepass subscription, while the other console requires you to start a new game library from scratch and doesn't give you access to gamepass or your previously bought microsoft games. Perhaps it's not a clear victory for Xbox, since those PS exclusives are quite popular, but i do think that Xbox's cross-device strategy offers a decent pathway towards their own console. Especially when PC owners have used gamepass on their PC before and don't want to miss out on that library when they switch game system. Microsoft seems pretty committed to always have the most powerful console on the market as well. That's something that would speak towards previous PC owners. They could've also gotten really into microsoft's first party games on PC and want to continue seeing that series through as they make the switch to console.

Neither have gone a good job selling their next generation, but Sony are currently riding a wave of high enthusiasm from the current generation and have pretty much been doing it since the E3 they announced their cheaper and more powerful machine. Their plan seems to be "more of the same", which if you look at the last 8 years and enjoyed that, you're at least happy enough with the idea.

@onemanarmyy: I suppose you could come up with a lot of situational or niche reasons someone with a gaming PC might want to get an Xbox over a PS5, but I still think the big reason, to play exclusive games, would apply to many more people than the dozen specific situations you just listed.

Many of your point also hinge on being far down the road. However, right here and now I think the PS5 is much more enticing purchase for someone that already has a gaming PC.

I agree. Right now for users with a current PC that can play the games that also come to Xbox? . You generally want to be able to have access to as many games as possible. Your PC can play the Xbox games instead. So yeah, I'd buy a playstation in that case.

But in my post i was talking about the long-term situation (5 to 15 years). In such a time-span, PC players have (probably) acquired a sizeable amount of Microsoft games to carry over, perhaps dabbled in gamepass and their PC would require an upgrade if they want to play the upcoming games. They are at the crossroads where they either play the microsoft games on PC or Xbox or miss out on these games & gamepass by choosing for Playstations exclusives. In such a case, i wouldn't be able to play all the games no matter which choice i make. I'd only end up with 1 system that can play current games, not 2.

Sure, not all of these reasons i mentioned are going to matter to everyone. But i do think that there are enough of these reasons floating around consumers heads that are valid enough to where choosing to play on an Xbox 5 to 15 years from now can make sense for a current PC owner. Your entire situation can change when you look at the long-term. You'd never think about how a child would affect your game-habits until it does. That's what made Vinny end up playing more console games after all. i'd also argue that getting in a relationship with someone that likes to game with you, having a superior TV compared to monitor, not wanting to spend your entire day behind a desk, wanting to play with console friends or getting in a rough financial position are hardly niche reasons that can steer you towards becoming a console-player. Having access to the gamepass library and / or previously bought games would make me seriously consider the Xbox in that case.

Exactly. since the ps4/xbox one consoles from day one were so underwhelming performance wise. my ps4 was exclusively only ever used to play games I couldnt get on pc. Looks like its going to be the same case with PS5/ XSX. So Ill get a ps5, I wont need an XSX.

I'm not excited for either one of these consoles but they are 100% necessary,

@onemanarmyy: in 2020 4 controllers, a proper sized memory card, and my choice of games I would take a GameCube. In 2001 4 controllers, my favorite music on the hard drive, lan connection, and my choice of games .. I would go Xbox 100%.